Oops... “You are now free to move about your jail cell”

[indykid]

I know a retired airline pilot who is totally against the crew being armed. He said the pilot and co-pilot can lock the door and the flight attendants know they are expendable. This is from a sharp guy who used to fly F-4;s off a carrier.

This is true, the doors now can be locked securely. The problem comes when a pilot needs to go to the restroom. Or on a long flight wants something to eat. Restrooms and galleys are not in the cockpit.

 

[Gluemanz28]

I lost all faith in them when I made it through security all the way to Mexico with 50 rounds of 9mm in my carry on.

My electronics backpack that gets carried on many planes (4 this week), had a loaded magazine in it. It was looked at by three TSA agents including a supervisor. It was sent through the scanner three time as well.

They couldn't figure out what they were seeing so they gave me my bag and let me board the plane.

They are a joke a huge ego and attitude.

 

[Thor]

So, I'm a little behind the times here...you mean the TSA is patrolling monuments? I thought they were basically airport cops...

Bus stations, train stations, and evidently, interstates with their portable back scatter machines? Also ships and ferries.

Yup, and some school proms too. Their modus operandi is the unreasonable search and making the citizens submit. You're not going to submit? Guess you didn't want to do what ever it is that you were here to do...and the rest of your day will now be lost to you too while they get more unreasonable.

What they do is only an erosion of your right to feel like you have rights, as noted earlier they aren't effective at stopping actual threats. So shut up, undress, have everything you brought x-rayed, get irradiated in the scanner, get groped. Now move along while hpclayto walks through with his 9mm ammo.

 

[Vigilant]

So, I'm a little behind the times here...you mean the TSA is patrolling monuments? I thought they were basically airport cops...

Oh, and they ARE NOT COPS!!!!!

 

[RoGrrr]

Every time I have an "interaction" with ANY TSA stooge I **** them off by saying, "9-11 NEVER would have happened if we were allowed to carry our personal guns on planes".

 

[Dirtebiker]

I lost all faith in them when I made it through security all the way to Mexico with 50 rounds of 9mm in my carry on.

And I with my heavy duty utility knife loaded with 8 extra blades

 

[Dirtebiker]

Every time I have an "interaction" with ANY TSA stooge I **** them off by saying, "9-11 NEVER would have happened if we were allowed to carry our personal guns on planes".

Sure you do!

 

[JAL]

I know a retired airline pilot who is totally against the crew being armed. He said the pilot and co-pilot can lock the door and the flight attendants know they are expendable. This is from a sharp guy who used to fly F-4;s off a carrier.

Just because he was an airdale doesn't mean he had much of any experience whatsoever with small arms beyond familiarization with the revolver he carried in his survival gear. I'm presuming former F-4 jockey plus retired airline pilot puts him in the S&W revolver era.

I do share his concern about armed crew. A firefight in an airliner punching holes through the fuselage and windows could be a really Bad Thing at 30,000 feet with the cabin pressurized to about 5,000 or so, and the hazard of projectiles hitting electrical systems and hydraulics. There would be absolute pandemonium among the passengers. Unlike a crowded room that's supposed to have exits, there's no place to flee without wearing and using a parachute.

John

 

[femurphy77]

At the height of the stupidity, a friend of mine who is a pilot for a major airline told me that TSA confiscated her nail file! She told them she was the pilot of the aircraft, in full uniform with all the luggage the flight crew always take with them. She said the fact that her hands could be on the controls of the aircraft so it would be difficult as well as useless for her to use the nail file. That didn't matter to the guy with an ego issue.

She laughed as she told me the story, because not only was she in charge of the safety of the aircraft, there was this giant pick-ax attached to her seat in the event she had to cut a hole in the side of the fuselage for emergency egress. And they are worried about her having a nail file?!?!?

Yes, pilots should have firearms for the safety of the disarmed flying public.

Just think of the damage a 5 year old girl could do if she got hold of that nail file!!!

 

[rhino]

Just because he was an airdale doesn't mean he had much of any experience whatsoever with small arms beyond familiarization with the revolver he carried in his survival gear. I'm presuming former F-4 jockey plus retired airline pilot puts him in the S&W revolver era.

I do share his concern about armed crew. A firefight in an airliner punching holes through the fuselage and windows could be a really Bad Thing at 30,000 feet with the cabin pressurized to about 5,000 or so, and the hazard of projectiles hitting electrical systems and hydraulics. There would be absolute pandemonium among the passengers. Unlike a crowded room that's supposed to have exits, there's no place to flee without wearing and using a parachute.

John

Why would that specifically matter? A few bullet holes aren't going to make the cabin lose a significant amount of pressure very quickly. There are a lot of other openings in a commercial aircraft. It's not like someone is going to get sucked out of the plane like a James Bond movie. Hitting vital systems is a very real concern, as is poking holes in innocent people, but a little more air leaking out of of an incredibly leaky box isn't a big deal.

 

[femurphy77]

Why would that specifically matter? A few bullet holes aren't going to make the cabin lose a significant amount of pressure very quickly. There are a lot of other openings in a commercial aircraft. It's not like someone is going to get sucked out of the plane like a James Bond movie. Hitting vital systems is a very real concern, as is poking holes in innocent people, but a little more air leaking out of of an incredibly leaky box isn't a big deal.

I wouldn't call them "incredibly leaky". You'd be surprised how leak resistant they really are. That said, I doubt a bullet hole in a non-critical area would be an immediate threat. Been on several test hops where we listened for air leaks after a major overhaul. What is entertaining is that even if a bullet pierced the skin, assuming you could get to the actual skin it would be as simple as applying a wet hand towel to the puncture to seal it. The portion exposed to outside air temps would freeze almost instantly effectively plugging the hole.