Open Carry Harassment South Bend-Video

[cce1302]

Isn't it illegal in Indiana to be carrying a firearm and engaged in a "organized protest"?? Maybe you need more than one person to be an "organized protest"?? I am sure I read this somewhere in the Indiana code. If this is true, then holding the protest sign and carrying a firearm would have him breaking the law. This kind of attention is not good for gun owners.

Please cite your source.

 

[JMoses]

I believe that law enforcement cannot stop you on the street or during a protest or what have you if you are not suspected of crime and demand your license simply and only because they visually see the gun. This was the way I took one of the posters statement when he said that the burden of prof is on the gun owner to provide if asked. I say LE has a right to ask. I have a right to not comply.

Don't comply and more than likely, you'll be arrested.

 

[JMoses]

From Kirk Freeman here:

"Please understand that the 4th Circuit (federal appellate court) does not include Indiana. The issue in the Black decision was a North Carolina statute which permits individuals to carry handguns openly without a license.


In Indiana by carrying a handgun (openly, concealed, taped to your forehead) you are committing a crime. Having a Larry is an affirmative defense of carrying a handgun. When we all go out with handguns, we are committing crimes in Indiana.


If the police see you committing a crime Indiana courts have deemed this reasonable. Once the poooleeece determine that you is legal, then full stop. It should end.


Any challenge in Indiana under the Fourth Amendment or Article I, §11 will like be analogized to the case from Georgia (Christopher Raissi) which has a statute similar to Indiana where the stop and detention of Mr. Raissi was reasonable.


This does not excuse the officer from being short with the OP. This does not excuse the officer for getting certain points of law incorrect. This does not excuse the officer from taking the pistol (I think it is a matter of timing), but it does remind us all that when we carry guns, even though we have no plans for criminal activity, we are committing crimes. Our Larrys are merely defenses to that crime.


It is the way our statute is written."


Guys need to do a little more research before they start spewing about not showing a LTCH and possibly getting someone arrested.

 

[Drail]

My favorite part was the cop yelling "you need to see this from our side!" Even if you cops don't know the law and I am not violating any of them, right? I also loved how many cars were dispatched to this "incident". Finally, I do think the "suspect" was acting like some stupid kid during the whole encounter.

 

[ViperJock]

I know that this may anger some people, but that goatee? So 1997. You want a beard, commit.

I am so butthurt over this. I know for a fact cool people were wearing goatees at least through 2001. And I still make it look good. BOOM. 5:1 says they let him off because its an airsoft rifle.

 

[mbills2223]

The Officer pulled his GUN on a guy standing on a street corner with a rifle over his shoulder??



"You can't have a gun, you can't have a rifle"

Yeah, that officer honestly just sounds like a mean old dude.

 

[CZB1962]

Don't comply and more than likely, you'll be arrested.

That is clearly what the laws says. You will not be convicted, but only after you are arrested and then ultimately produce the LTCH anyway.

The phrase "we can do this the easy way or the hard way" comes to mind.

I for one choose to pick my battles with some reasonable expectation of winning.

 

[Rocketscientist]

The protester went out looking for attention, and then wants to flip out when he gets said attention? Come on. And if that wasn't bad enough, he thought adding a few curses and insults toward the officers would make the situation better? What a colossal embarrassment. Do what they say and fight it in court later.

I suppose the police could have handled things a little different, as this situation should be nothing new to them by now, however, video doesn't always show everything. Who knows what went on prior to pressing the record button.

 

[printcraft]

Do you charge extra for grammar consultation for your signage clients? The dude could've used it.

No extra charges........ it all part of the full service, first class treatment at Printcraft!

I am so butthurt over this. I know for a fact cool people were wearing goatees at least through 2001. And I still make it look good. BOOM. 5:1 says they let him off because its an airsoft rifle.

QFT

 

[churchmouse]

Little heavy handed

Have to agree.

These actions do not make LEO/citizen relations any easier. But, not sure how I would have handled him.

 

[halfmileharry]

Looks like his mom dressed him before the protest. Kinda 1964 cool though.

 

[GONZO!!!]

First and formost, this guy doesn't represent me as a lawful responsible law abiding citizen...and I carry OC/CC

Frankly I tire of these type of people....and whatever I may have thought of him only cheapened and progressively got worse as he started telling officer's to F - off

It's acts like this that MAY cause our state legislature to tire of this and begin to pass laws which MIGHT be unfavorable toward responsible law abiding gun owners

Yes, legally it's a right to carry the rifle....but why should we....99% people who do this and have video already rolling are doing so because they want to incite confrontation with the police....they want to show their expertise at being Internet armchair lawyers

Again....this is old tired hack and progressed our cause not one single bit

Sad

 

[wsenefeld]

If they can stop someone who is carrying and ask for a LTCH, what keeps a patrol officer from pulling over every motorist for no other reason than to see their driver's license?

 

[JMoses]

First and formost, this guy doesn't represent me as a lawful responsible law abiding citizen...and I carry OC/CC

Frankly I tire of these type of people....and whatever I may have thought of him only cheapened and progressively got worse as he started telling officer's to F - off

It's acts like this that MAY cause our state legislature to tire of this and begin to pass laws which MIGHT be unfavorable toward responsible law abiding gun owners

Yes, legally it's a right to carry the rifle....but why should we....99% people who do this and have video already rolling are doing so because they want to incite confrontation with the police....they want to show their expertise at being Internet armchair lawyers

Again....this is old tired hack and progressed our cause not one single bit

Sad

Well said and agreed!

 

[CZB1962]

If they can stop someone who is carrying and ask for a LTCH, what keeps a patrol officer from pulling over every motorist for no other reason than to see their driver's license?

My best guess is logistics. It simply is impractical, but I think that the fact that the courts have said that checkpoints are legal would mean that you can be pulled over just to check your papers. I am going to try and research this a bit.

 

[Sling10mm]

He wasn't breaking the law
He was performing a public service trying to get people to slow down to avoid tickets in what sounds like a speed trap (based on other comments)(though with the too small signage, and improper grammar).
The cop drew (and pointed?) his weapon on the guy when he wasn't breaking the law.
The cop disarmed him when he wasn't breaking the law.
Multiple officers show up, and several try to explain to the guy how wrong he is for carrying a rifle, even when he isn't breaking the law. By definition, not their authority to lecture, only to enforce the law, of which none were being broken.

I think a few expletives were warranted during this exchange. Even if he is an attention hound, LEO's need to understand that these people are out there, and react appropriately. It makes life safer and easier for the LEO to assume everyone is a criminal, but the citizenry doesn't have to accept this kind of behavior from our public servants. I think LEO's should have to take something similar to a doctor's hippocratic oath, but in this case not to violate the rights of the people they serve. Oh, wait a minute, don't they already do that?

Agree or disagree with what the guy was doing, or even how he reacted, but he wasn't breaking the law, and the police officers were in the wrong (IMO).

That is bad mojo.

Finally, is that a goatee or a Van Dyke?

 

[wsenefeld]

My best guess is logistics. It simply is impractical, but I think that the fact that the courts have said that checkpoints are legal would mean that you can be pulled over just to check your papers. I am going to try and research this a bit.

Impractical, sure, but what if I call in and report someone sitting in the drivers seat of a vehicle in a parking lot? Since the department received a call, doesn't he "have to investigate"?

 

[rugertoter]

Gun owner was a moron. First of all, he claimed that he was able to carry a handgun openly without a "permit". WRONG. Second, when asked for his permit, he refused. Not good, bro. Third, he started "poking the bear" by essentially calling the officers illiterate stating that he didn't know if they could read the sign since they didn't know the law and telling them to f*** off. Guess what douche bag... you apparently don't know the law either.

Cops failed by overreacting and approaching the guy with guns drawn. They spouted off a bunch of nonsense about it being a Terry stop, when it didn't qualify as a Terry stop. In the end, they returned his firearms and left.

The whole thing could have been avoided if the cops had just walked up to him and asked a few questions and he didn't cop an attitude. Fail on ALL parts. The guy was out there looking for an altercation and he found it. He is an asshat. Did you read his sign? It had nothing to do with carrying a firearm. What was the purpose of him slinging a .22 rifle over his shoulder? You want to protest? Fine. But don't be a douche nozzle.

I agree, epic failure on all parts. Too much "tough-guy" syndrome going on there.

 

[1911ly]

Does standing on a corner carrying a gun holding a sign seem a bit of odd behavior? Constitutional right ok, I'll give you that. But it's intimidating. You are raise undue fears.

The first time a cop blows off a confrontation like this and the guy walks down the street to a Dairy Queen (yeah there's a Dairy Queen right near there) and opens fire the cop will be blamed for not following up.

Most of you probably won't remember what happen just up the street a few blocks from that location.

A few years ago a cop was murdered on that street. Just west a few blocks. It happened across the street from where I worked.
Two South Bend police officers shot, one killed - 13 WTHR Indianapolis

And about 15 years ago a bunch of Wendy's employees were murder as well. About a block west.
Other area workplace shootings - South Bend Tribune: Public Safety

And around 30 years ago a Jewelery store owner was murdered just a block east. I can't find the article. It was Nunamalers Jewelery.


If you are going to be a nut and wave a sign while carrying a gun expect to be questioned. I'd be disappointed in a cop that did not stop.

 

[bradrob]

The guy got exactly what he wanted. He used his guns to draw more attention to himself and his cause. Holding the sign to whine and cry about getting a speeding ticket and to let people know the police write tickets in the area was secondary. If that was his main goal, he didn't need to cause such a scene. He got his confrontation, and "won" since he succeeded in making the police look stupid...congrats to the D-B!

I'll never understand why anyone would antagonize the police, especially in this day and age. If you don't want a ticket, don't speed. If 30 mph is too slow, either take another route, or pay the consequences if you do break the law. The lack of respect and personal responsibility is very disturbing to me. Nothing against OC, but this guy intentionally drew the attention to himself for what appears to be a very questionable reason IMO.

That's just not how I want to be represented as a responsible gun owner, and I feel it hurts the cause of protecting our 2A rights.