Optical Focus: On the front sight or on the target?

[TFin04]

So having two blurred sights doesn't bother you? Have you put thought or practice into why you prefer one over the other? It's the same parallax issue regardless...

And when you talk about focusing on the sights and not being able to find the target, are you switching your focus (first focus on and find the target, then bringing your focus back to the irons), or "riding" the irons as you move/transition?

The second blurred sight, for me, with a hard target focus, is far off to the right and I can clearly distinguish the one in front of me to line them up properly. So no, I don't have a problem with two sights.

I haven't tried a hard sight focus in a while, but doing some stuff dry in my house if I do a target ID then back to the sights I feel I am wasting a lot of time switching focus. My focus doesn't transition very quickly. Maybe it's because I'm so used to my target focus, or maybe my eyes are just a little funky. I know a lot of people see these things a lot of different ways depending on their eyes.

 

[BillD]

.

However, I seeketh, and INGO provideth. I will now use BillD's avatar as a training aid to effortlessly keep both eyes open. And I do mean wide open. If that doesn't do it, I don't know what will.

I'm here to help.

 

[jblomenberg16]

This thread has spurred some thought and action on my end. I think that was part of the TFin was going for.

Last night I took a few of my guns and tried a two eyed open sight on a few "targets" inside my house.

IF I focused on the target, I was able to get a decent sight picture with my shot-gun (rifle sights) and AR (used the irons, not the dot). There was some blur, but concentrating on the "target" seemed to make it manageable. With my pistols I wasn't able to get a comfortable sight picture. I had a lot of double vision.


IF I focused on the front sight, I got a lot of double vision in both the rear sight and the target.

IF I used a more traditional sight picture by closing my left eye, I got a better picutre, but could tell a difference between that and a two eyed sight picture.


I think next time I get out to shoot, I'll try it again, and see if I can get a little more comfortable. I know that when I started shooting skeet/trap wtih both eyes open, my shooting improved significantly.

 

[mhs]

I've experienced this a few times myself, but I am not able to "make" it happen. when I've done it I've not been directing my focus at either, but rather somewhere in between (ie I see two sights and two targets)... If you can do that, I think that's pretty cool to be able to overlay those images...

-rvb

The only problem so far is that it's possible for me to see my front sight with my right eye, the target with my left eye, and not notice the hard cover that is between the gun and the target. This only happens if I'm shooting close to cover on my right.

 

[fyrefyter101]

I agree with sailor and slow1911s that works for me, but buy some ammo and see what works the best for you

 

[kludge]

Do you shoot both eyes open or one eye closed?
Is your focus (optical clarity) on your front sight, or on your target?
Is your focus (mental focus, paying attention to, etc) on your front sight, or on your target?
Discuss.

Both eyes open (iron sights or dot sights).
Target.
Front sight.

Both eyes are necessary for depth perception. Both eyes open greaty increases field of vision 30-40%.

If you are right eyed and both eyes look at the target, then your brain will see one target and two sets of sights. Your brain, via the dominant eye, knows which set of sights to use, you have been doing this as an infant and it is natural.

In a OMGWFTSHTF situation, chances are you will get tunnel vision, and your eyes will become "threat focused". There is no use fighting nature - use that knowledge and train with that in mind.

If you have both eyes open and visual focus is on the front sight your brain will see one front sight, two rear sights, and two targets.

You must now decide which of the two targets to shoot. If you are right eyed, you need to shoot the target on the right. But in the heat of the moment, this decision could waste precious time, or you may shoot the wrong target (i.e. something else).

My mental focus is on the dot on my front sight. My brain and dominant eye automatically put the dot (the correct one of the two) on the target, all without any brainpower, like I said my brain has been doing this since I was born.

If I am target shooting, same thing, except I take time to make sure that the front sight is exactly centered in and level with the rear sight.

In rapid fire, I only mentally focus on the dot on the front sight: fire, find the dot, put it on the target, fire, repeat as necessary. Eyes stay open and focused on the target. Another benefit... if I'm focused on the target, I'll know what the target is doing, and whether I need to shoot it again.

______

 

[IndyGunSafety]

I have my own beliefs/opinions/practices of this topic but I want to drum up some conversation.

Do you shoot both eyes open or one eye closed?
Is your focus (optical clarity) on your front sight, or on your target?
Is your focus (mental focus, paying attention to, etc) on your front sight, or on your target?

Approach this from a scenario of a dynamic shooting competition (multiple targets, no shoots, etc. IDPA/IPSC/USPSA/Etc) and/or a defensive shooting role.

Discuss.

1. It depends on the light conditions. I try to keep both eyes open but certain light conditions make it hard to do so. Closing one eye in a tactical situation causes you to lose half of your vision. Although there is an advantage to doing so at night to keep night vision in one eye after the muzzle flash. I actually practice shooting with my non-dominant eye just for this reason. (So I know where I hit)

2. Front sight. It is my experience that those students who employ front sight focus shoot more accurately and consistantly.

3. Mental focus almost indicates a loss of situational awareness. Multiple threats, my target and beyond, etc. dictates my vision be wide to improve situational awareness.

 

[U.S. Patriot]

Well here is my perspective. If shooting for accuracy, one eye closed. Back site fuzzy, front site and target clear. In a situation like clearing a building. Both eyes open. Weapon about neck height. If I have to engage quickly in close quarters, both eyes open! For the first 1-2 shots. Then site in on the target!

 

[slow1911s]

Well here is my perspective. If shooting for accuracy, one eye closed. Back site fuzzy, front site and target clear.

I want your eyes because I didn't realize that humans could do that with two eyes, let alone one.

 

[flightsimmer]

As my eyes get older and older I find that a laser sight works best for me. I focus on the target and put the laser dot on the target and squeeze the trigger.

 

[obijohn]

Best I've read so far in this thread is "see what you need to see to get the job done..." Lot's of good data here. Typically, humans tend to shift focus through the focal planes at hand. In other words: sights, target, surroundings will all be in focus at any given time depending on circumstances. Think of this as a continuum or a circle and the order rotates as needs dictate.

 

[rvb]

Here's a method nobody has brought up yet, so I will. This is something I actually experience quite often.

So far in this thread, we have assumed that where we are optically "in focus" is where our eyes are also looking. In other words, if we are in focus on the FS then both eyes are looking at the FS and we see two targets, while if the target is in focus then we see two sets of sights. Basic parallax.

Has any one else experienced having the optical focus on one plane while the eyes are aimed at another? On relatively close (10 yds and under) high speed arrays (eg El Prez) I frequently experience a single blury target, but two crisply focused sets of sights.

This is something I have a hard time "trying" to do, but I think on those types of high-speed, multiple target engagements, my brain tries to blend the goals of finding the targets for fast transitions and focusing on the front sight for accurate shot calling.

Maybe I'm just weird.

-rvb

 

[erik7941]

I've been shooting shotguns (skeet/trap) with both eyes for a while, but can't seem to get my eyes to work quite right with rifles and pistols and irons. I can get it to work with red-dots.

I've tried shooting with both eyes open, but being a right handed shooter and left eye dominan has been difficult.

I'm getting a lot of double vision trying to use both eyes, especially as the left eye tries to take over.

I've also been shooting shotguns and shotgun sports with both eyes but I have the same problem with rifles and pistols and iron sights. I can shoot both eyes open on the larger diameter red dots but not on the smaller/slimmer ones.
I don't have quite the same issue as you though, since I'm a right handed shooter and right eye dominant, but if I try to shoot both eyes open without a small clear piece of tape on my shooting glasses over my left eye, I see either a somewhat blurred second sight or double sights.
As for which sight I focus on, when I bring the gun up, I pick up the front sight, check my alignment with the rear sight, put the front sight on the target (sort of looking through the front sight at the target, not ignoring the front sight, but I know where it is and use it as well as the rear sight to look through it to the target). That seemed kind of confusing to me so I hope that makes more sense to others.

 

[rvb]

I think there are situations, like targets <1 yd, where you can get away with a target focus coupled with a well-established index. Some expert level shooters can get away with target focus at 2-3 yds on targets.

If I get a hard optical focus on my sights, I end up seeing two targets blurred in the background and cant figure out which one to shoot at, esp when moving.

A well established index is very important beyond what slow1911 talked about (I know he was just talking in terms of pure target focus), so perhaps we should expand on that...

This is why it's important when focused on the FS to not "ride" the sight, but shift focus back and forth. Once the target is located and we know where the target is, a well established index will allow us to get the gun on target. As the focus shifts to the sights, the gun will be very close to or on the target and refinement can be done with the sights. To aim at the "other" target should feel wrong. By the time we have brought our focus to the sights the gun should already be pointing at the "correct" target. There should be no decision to make. The better the index is developed, the less refinement has to be done with the sights.

A point to consider, if our eyes are 3" apart (dunno, rough guess) and the FS is 2 feet in front of them (rough guess), then at 10 yds the two "targets" appear over 3.5' apart! A solid index will get the sights on the correct target.

I feel I am wasting a lot of time switching focus. My focus doesn't transition very quickly.

I've heard it said that the eye muscles are among the fastest in the body. I agree, it does feel slow when milliseconds count. And if you're in a situation you "see enough" w/o switching focus then go for it. But especially when transitioning onto a target, getting the gun on target is a much slower process then bringing the focus back. As the gun is coming on target (due to a well established index), the eyes can be bringing their focus in. You'll pick up the gun still in motion every time.

Also, (as I said earlier) I think how fast we switch focus is something we can train and improve. [again, w/ some exception for people w/ bad eyes].

-rvb

 

[John Smith]

A lot of shooters don't even know there eyes are bad, however the older you get the slower your eye muscle will work. The lens in your eye dictates how fast the eye will adjust. The older you get the slower your eye adjusts. That's life.

 

[Dean C.]

Shot USPSA for the first time this last weekend and I found myself focusing on the front sight for the first shot and the target for the second shoot. It seemed to work pretty well for me and both eyes open.

 

[rockhopper46038]

And when you talk about focusing on the sights and not being able to find the target, are you switching your focus (first focus on and find the target, then bringing your focus back to the irons), or "riding" the irons as you move/transition?

-rvb

ps.
right eye: right "target", left "sights"
left eye: left "target", right "sights"

This was a very insightful post for me. In fact, I just walked out back and shot a quick 6 target course (with an airsoft, don't hate), and I found that I was watching my front sight travel to the target in focus, versus focusing on the next target and bringing the sights into focus against it. I shot it the other way and achieved some instant gratification. "Snapping the eyes to the target" makes sense now in a way I guess I didn't quite grasp before.

 

[Jesse Tischauser]

I shoot both eyes open 95% of the time. If I have a long shot with the pistol I'll slightly close my non dominant eye so the dominant eye can focus hard on the sights. Same hoes for long range rifle in a scope, red dot or iron sights as well as for slug shooting with a shotgun.

For dynamic competition shooting the focus goes back and forth from target to sights rapidly. On targets past about 10 yards it's all sight focus as you are breaking the shot. On close stuff it's target focus and a fast trigger.

Shotguns are a while other animal. Mostly soft sight focus with hard target focus but again that changes due to movement and target distance.