Our founders missed something...

[Thor]

"Secede," not "succeed."

I have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Fargo]

The original constitution would never have been ratified if it foreclosed the idea of secession. Hell, if memory serves, even New York had an explicit clause in its ratification act that it could leave anytime it wanted to.

The Revolutionary war was much more of a secession than it was any sort of revolution. Do you really think the people who had just exercised the rights outlined in the Declaration of Independence with blood were going to then ratify a document outlawing those rights?

 

[BugI02]

And 85 years later, preserving The Union at all costs was outlined in exponentially more blood; all of it American

 

[Tombs]

I'm all for the states conducting their own laboratory of freedoms. It's when they fail and the people of those failed states move to a relatively healthy one and insist on infecting their new home with the same diseases that made their former home sick.

The only reason we even have a federal government; the whole reason for the civil war, was to stop states from taking away the people's rights.

This "laboratory of freedoms" is nothing more than a dereliction of duty of the federal government, to protect the very rights they were created to protect.

 

[HoughMade]

See, Article I, sec. 8, cl. 15; Amend. XIV, §5,

...but as I see it, states can (theoretically) leave the same way they came in (leaving out the excrutiating details), the consent of the Congress and of the state. Both agree, or there is no change in status.

 

[Woobie]

...but as I see it, states can (theoretically) leave the same way they came in (leaving out the excrutiating details), the consent of the Congress and of the state. Both agree, or there is no change in status.

I see it more like a marriage. It takes two to tango. If one is beating up the other, the other needs a way out without the consent of the one doing the beating.

 

[HoughMade]

I see it more like a marriage. It takes two to tango. If one is beating up the other, the other needs a way out without the consent of the one doing the beating.

You can see it that way if you want to, but a war tells it's that's not the way it works.

 

[Lex Concord]

As messed up as California is, it would cause us more trouble if they were banished from the union, or seceded.

It would cause an added security issue with more border to guard, and a large loss of seacoast.

Agreed.

And introduce another foreign country on our border that would more likely than not, be hostile to our interests in many ways.

So, no change.

 

[Lex Concord]

The new Peoples Republic of California would also welcome a China partnership with open arms. Can you imagine the negotiations over water rights, with those selfish bastards? Not to mention the loss of thousands of square miles of military training and operations ranges.

I'm all about self determination.

Los Angeles is a net importer of water. You think oil embargoes make people stand up and pay attention.... let them secede, then let the rest of Cali provide the water. That should be fun for them as the far northern counties would likely secede from Cali (they already want to) and either attempt to stay in the U.S. or make a go on their own.

As far as loss of military/federal land, that could actually be a valuable bargaining chip. There are plenty of other federal lands West of the Mississippi (in some states, fedgov owns well over 50% of land area. It wouldn't be easy, it wouldn't be fun, but we'd make due.

I say if the cancer wants to leave, let it go.

 

[Lex Concord]

You can see it that way if you want to, but a war tells it's that's not the way it works.

That sounds an awful lot like "might makes right". I doubt that's your intended stance; I get that the reality is that the outcome of the war set the current state, but I would hope that we wouldn't be so stupid/crazy to start that **** again.

 

[HoughMade]

That sounds an awful lot like "might makes right". I doubt that's your intended stance; I get that the reality is that the outcome of the war set the current state, but I would hope that we wouldn't be so stupid/crazy to start that **** again.

Might doesn’t make right....but it makes reality.

Honestly, I think it is “right” to require both the nation and the state to consent coming in or going out.

 

[Fargo]

Might doesn’t make right....but it makes reality.

Honestly, I think it is “right” to require both the nation and the state to consent coming in or going out.

Soooooooo, what's your take on when colonies who have no legal sovereignty decide to leave?

 

[Woobie]

You can see it that way if you want to, but a war tells it's that's not the way it works.

Ah yes, liberty. For the winner. Sounds like a middle eastern marriage to me.

 

[Libertarian01]

Forget everything else but political power! Money is important. Power is more important. There is no way democrats would allow California to leave.

California represents 55 electoral votes out of 538. That is over 10% that always goes democrat.

California sent 75 superdelegates to their convention in 2016 out of 712. Again, over 10%.

California is one of the most progressive states out there. There are many progun bluesteel democrats in the midwest. There are also many bluedog democrats in the south. The national balance of power would shift dramatically against the democrats in national elections and against remaining democrats internally in their own party.

No, my friends, California is going nowhere. The democrats will see to that.

Regards,

Doug

 

[Tactically Fat]

You can think that you'd want California to leave... But they have like the 8th largest economy in the WORLD. If they were suddenly gone from the US Economy - it'd be literal dire straights for millions upon millions of people.

 

[HoughMade]

Soooooooo, what's your take on when colonies who have no legal sovereignty decide to leave?

My take is that it happened any my 242 year late opinion is irrelevant.

You can think that you'd want California to leave... But they have like the 8th largest economy in the WORLD. If they were suddenly gone from the US Economy - it'd be literal dire straights for millions upon millions of people.

Which is only one of the plethora of reasons why the state is not the only entity with a stake in the secession game.