Lol.....
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Paul Harrell, Sad News
- Thread starter JCSR
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A man bun... on a Paul Harrell video!!! Lol!
Seriously, sad to hear him say likely his last video, but happy that it's my personal go-to drill. No matter what else I might do, I always run this drill with any carry or home protection handguns.
Just nit, but where I differ from Paul on this drill, no "assessment" prior to the headshot, if the target is still present, I take the shot. Right or wrong, I figure if the first two were effective, then the head target will no longer be "present", either on the way to the ground or leaving the scene expeditiously, but no longer where it was mere fractions of a second ago.
The biggest overlooked thing with that whole Mozambique drill is it’s more set up on someone attacking you like they would in a battle (Mozambique in the name ie African conflict) in the case of a robbery You will still have to find the head for that shot. Robbers and muggers don’t stand there for the 3rd round after you shot shot them twice. So there will be a momentary pause. Which will give you a chance to asses while you are setting up for the 3rd.
Well, I see it more "general" than that... if multiple shots to center of mass are not stopping the robber, mugger, attacker, car jacker, home invader, shooter, etc.... then you need to do something different... ASAP... because their actions while "not standing around" could very well be killing you or someone else.
If I'm shooting, it's because they are an imminent deadly threat and I'll continue shooting as rapidly as I can while maintaining accuracy until they aren't an imminent deadly threat.
And if nothing else, the drill tells me my limitations on pace, accuracy and distance for each: rapid shots to center of mass and transition to CNS target. For each handgun I might use in defense. And, most importantly, improving over time.
For example, I know I can run my Shield+ as fast as I can go, I've had it for awhile and drilled with it:
My new P09, I need to work on to get the accuracy I want at full speed:
I run other drills, but the failure drill is the one I measure most by.
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Plan B is a good thing and don’t be afraid to use it. All I am saying is some folks get 1 dimensional on certain drills and speed. While yea speed is important sometimes it causes bad things. I’m also never said camp out.
When I mention time for assessment I am talking .50-1.0 seconds not several seconds. LAPD SWAT has a .50 split standard and they don’t miss. Anything quicker than .3 you aren’t assessing and you are not more than likely making great “CNS” hits!
Try the .30 or faster with a carry gun in a match and see how many down 3 or 5 or C,D or Mines you get which equal a bit immediate stop unless the BD decides to give up/leave
Also respectfully (as a retired FLETC, ILEA and current Rangemaster guy) let me point out that whole “Center Mass” is obsolete as are your targets. Great shot groups however the scoring rings in traditional B27 and transfer 2 in seeing are the same obsolete rings that are not placed in anatomically correct places that cause immediate incapacity.
Here is a couple links for some you can print off.
Also good old B8 repair centers can’t be beat either!
Two pillared training in the files had some great targets (I just had John here last July for a class)
Files – JHearne.com
twopillarstraining.com
Lee Weems First Person Safety ho to Training and Services
And Dave Spaulding Handguns Combatives Store has an excellent Thoracic target
Downloadable Handgun Combatives Chest Cavity Target
Add the target to your cart and complete checkout. You will have a link provided with your confirmed order to download the target. You will also receive an email with a link to download the target. Only one copy needs to be purchased. You can print multiple copies.
handguncombatives.store
I have become partial to Aaron Cowan's (Sage Dynamics) downloadable targets as they can be printed at home and taped to a backer.Plan B is a good thing and don’t be afraid to use it. All I am saying is some folks get 1 dimensional on certain drills and speed. While yea speed is important sometimes it causes bad things. I’m also never said camp out.
When I mention time for assessment I am talking .50-1.0 seconds not several seconds. LAPD SWAT has a .50 split standard and they don’t miss. Anything quicker than .3 you aren’t assessing and you are not more than likely making great “CNS” hits!
Try the .30 or faster with a carry gun in a match and see how many down 3 or 5 or C,D or Mines you get which equal a bit immediate stop unless the BD decides to give up/leave
Also respectfully (as a retired FLETC, ILEA and current Rangemaster guy) let me point out that whole “Center Mass” is obsolete as are your targets. Great shot groups however the scoring rings in traditional B27 and transfer 2 in seeing are the same obsolete rings that are not placed in anatomically correct places that cause immediate incapacity.
Here is a couple links for some you can print off.
Also good old B8 repair centers can’t be beat either!
Two pillared training in the files had some great targets (I just had John here last July for a class)
Files – JHearne.com
Lee Weems First Person Safety ho to Training and Services
And Dave Spaulding Handguns Combatives Store has an excellent Thoracic target
Downloadable Handgun Combatives Chest Cavity Target
Add the target to your cart and complete checkout. You will have a link provided with your confirmed order to download the target. You will also receive an email with a link to download the target. Only one copy needs to be purchased. You can print multiple copies.handguncombatives.store
Sage Dynamics
Sage Dynamics offers reality-based training for law enforcement, military and private citizens.
The Vital Anatomy targets seem reasonably sized.
The others present solid drills and assessments options.
I don't time splits... I don't have a "number" goal. My goal is to be able to manage the gun and the trigger to be able to accurately place the shot the instant the dot or front sight returns to target... or for the high shot, when it settles high nose bridge.
Until I can reliably and repeatable run the gun to that standard, I don't carry it or rely upon it for HD.
As much fun as it is occasionally renting a Shadow 2 Orange, I don't own nor do I plan to own, any competition guns.
Completely agree... the "rings" are too low... they're what I have or have available.
That "angry face" target, is to me, ideal. unless I find better, I'll print that and tape it to my silhouettes. At any distance at all, you only see "face anatomy", no scoring zones until you bring it back.Here is a couple links for some you can print off.
Also good old B8 repair centers can’t be beat either!
Two pillared training in the files had some great targets (I just had John here last July for a class)
Files – JHearne.com
Lee Weems First Person Safety ho to Training and Services
And Dave Spaulding Handguns Combatives Store has an excellent Thoracic target
Downloadable Handgun Combatives Chest Cavity Target
Add the target to your cart and complete checkout. You will have a link provided with your confirmed order to download the target. You will also receive an email with a link to download the target. Only one copy needs to be purchased. You can print multiple copies.handguncombatives.store
My ideal target would be similar, full torso and head "picture" targets, with the "score" zones only visible on close inspection, and in the correct anatomical sternum, between the nipples, location. At shooting distance, you only see a guy in a shirt or jacket.
When I bow-hunted a lot, I enjoyed 3D shoots... you couldn't see the heart/lung score zones until you retrieved your arrows. To me, ideal and incredibly useful in the real hunts.
See my response above... for me and specifically the way my brain processes, I would prefer these as "watermarks" only visible up close on a full-size torso and head target.I have become partial to Aaron Cowan's (Sage Dynamics) downloadable targets as they can be printed at home and taped to a backer.
Sage Dynamics
Sage Dynamics offers reality-based training for law enforcement, military and private citizens.www.sagedynamics.org
The Vital Anatomy targets seem reasonably sized.
The others present solid drills and assessments options.
I’ll add this then get back on topic
Folks really should use a timer from time to time to Hague their baseline and for different drills that said, Another great drill is look into the Bakersfield qual while the actual target isn’t as large you could use an IDPA target
Start position from Holster
Stage 1 10 feet 2 rounds in 1.5 seconds
Stage 2 20 rounds 2.0 seconds
Stage 3 30 feet 2 rounds slide lock reload 2 more (4 rounds total) 6.0 seconds
Stage 4 60 feet 2 rounds 3.5 seconds
Scoring is 10/8/6/0 Head shots are scored 0 as that’s not the target
10 rounds total here’s the dicey part
For every shot over .01 to .25 add 1 second .26-.50 2 seconds .51-.75 3 seconds and so on
100 possible 80 passing
The idea is also to shoot it cold. Once a day no sight picture etc
Bakersfield use to shoot that drill cold every 2 weeks and have to score 80 or better
Also anyone the Justin Dyal 5 yard round up and Rangemaster Baseline assessment drill on a B8 are a great indicator of one’s skill set
Five yard Roundup Drill - Notes from KR
At KR Training, one of our ongoing efforts is to identify acceptable minimum standards and drills for defensive handgun skills. In the February 2018 issue of SWAT magazine, Justin Dyal wrote about a drill he designed, called the Five Yard Roundup. FIVE-YARD ROUNDUP: Timed Close-Up Shooting...
blog.krtraining.com
Rangemaster Baseline Assessment Drill
Written by: Greg Ellifritz I got this one from the Rangemaster Instructor Course I attended last year. It is also described as the "drill of the month" in Rangemaster's December 2020 Newsletter (opens to
www.activeresponsetraining.net
Titanium_Frost
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Many here know of Paul Harrell. He's an awesome guntuber that has some amazing videos. If you have been living under a rock, He recently revealed he has terminal pancreatic cancer and is stepping away from his channel and his brother is taking over. (presumable Paul is writing and directing it...
Am I the only person bothered by the fact that John (shooter) leans backward while firing? The US Army taught me to lean into the gun, absorb the recoil with your entire upper body. I still shoot that way almost 50 years later. That is how I taught my daughter and grandson how to shoot a handgun. Standing up nice and straight while someone is shooting at you appears a bit silly. Lean into that gun; present a smaller target, absorb that recoil, get the gun back on target quicker. It all makes sense to me. Opinions?
Didn’t watch the whole video but saw “John Shoot” This is probably not his case however a lot of “Red Dot” shooters especially ones that started out on red dots because they are not use to holding the gun up as high as they have to with irons. (One reason new dot converts can’t find the dot they hold the gun too high)
To me that’s what it sort of looks like. Just a lack of time with iron sights!
On a semi related note I watched a few guys with very unorthodox stands over the years but they were shooters. One had his elbows completely bent outward and I was like WTH inside. Nothing unsafe but he smoked about everyone in a bowling pin match running a CZ 75 of some flavor. So sometimes arms and back might not matter other than it looks funny
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