Pending ND

[IndianaResident]

Or perhaps AD. In either case, this (the right) is the round that I ejected from the chamber today.

It came out of a Glock 23, and that is a light striker mark on the primer. Hasn't happened before, or there would be multiple, but it makes me uncomfortable. Even loading and unloading in a safe direction, I'd rather not fire off a round in a residential area that I don't need to.

Question here is, why did this happen?

Further, in inspecting the action, why can I sometimes see the striker protruding when the slide is to the rear, but other times not?

It seems like if the "hammer" is forward when I rack it I can see the striker, but when the trigger has not been pulled the striker is recessed when slide is back.

Does that sound right?


......final note, if its of relevance, I clean my guns after each shoot.
[edit] I wasn't trying to choose the round, just unloaded the EDC


[edit] No one can use my fingerprint for nefarious purposes without my express permission. PM me requests.

 

[Vince49]

It could just be a hard primer, this sometimes happens. The next thing I would check would be to see if the firing pin channel is clean and not all gunked up. A quick check is to field strip (remove the slide) And while depressing the firing pin safety (the silver button on the bottom of the slide) shake the slide and the firing pin should rattle back and forth. If any oil has gotten into the firing pin channel it will cause brass shavings and soot to accumulate and impede the firing pin action. This is why Glock cautions against allowing any oil to enter the firing pin channel. A simple detail strip and cleaning of the channel with Q-Tips and alcohol will usualy cure the problem.

PS: To your last question, yes this is normal. When the trigger is forward the firing pin lug is engaged by the trigger bar and this prevents the firing pin from moving forward to a visible position.

 

[IndianaResident]

It could just be a hard primer, this sometimes happens. The next thing I would check would be to see if the firing pin channel is clean and not all gunked up. A quick check is to field strip (remove the slide) And while depressing the firing pin safety (the silver button on the bottom of the slide) shake the slide and the firing pin should rattle back and forth. If any oil has gotten into the firing pin channel it will cause brass shavings and soot to accumulate and impede the firing pin action. This is why Glock cautions against allowing any oil to enter the firing pin channel. A simple detail strip and cleaning of the channel with Q-Tips and alcohol will usualy cure the problem.

Pin bounces around like a mexican jumping bean.
Why would a hard primer cause this?

 

[Vince49]

Pin bounces around like a mexican jumping bean.
Why would a hard primer cause this?

Hard primer means exactly that. At some point in the heat treating of the brass or mixing of the alloys in manufacturing the primer brass there might have been a glitch resulting in a primer that is harder (tougher to indent) than normal. NATO primers are notoriously hard this is why Glock offers stronger firing pin springs on their website that are not available in the US (at least not directly from Glock).

 

[NinnJinn]

Hard primer means exactly that. At some point in the heat treating of the brass or mixing of the alloys in manufacturing the primer brass there might have been a glitch resulting in a primer that is harder (tougher to indent) than normal. NATO primers are notoriously hard

Thus not allowing the pin to put enough of a "dent" into the primer in which case will not compact/crush the contents of the primer causing it to go off.

I had one (FTF) myself last week.

 

[IndianaResident]

Thus not allowing the pin to put enough of a "dent" into the primer in which case will not compact/crush the contents of the primer causing it to go off.

I had one (FTF) myself last week.

But like I said, I didn't pull the trigger on this round, that's the problem.

That dent is from loading the round into the chamber. I didn't want the striker/firing pin to hit the primer at all, so I don't think a hard primer is relevant here. Thanks for the suggestion though.

Not a FTF, its a Failure to Chamber Safely.

 

[Vince49]

But like I said, I didn't pull the trigger on this round, that's the problem.

That dent is from loading the round into the chamber. I didn't want the striker/firing pin to hit the primer at all, so I don't think a hard primer is relevant here. Thanks for the suggestion though.

Not a FTF, its a Failure to Chamber Safely.

Sorry about that, I had to shut down for awhile, too much lightening in the area. If that strike is happening while chambering I would think yes a AD is definitely a possibility! My best guess (and that is all it is) is that there is some piece of debris in the firing pin channel, brass shaving or whatever that intermittently is causing the firing pin to be stuck in the forward position. Without looking I cannot tell. I would still detail strip the slide and clean the firing pin channel, inspect the spring cups, spacer sleeve and firing pin channel to make sure there are no burrs etc. If the firearm has a high round count it might be worthwhile to go ahead and replace the channel liner,spring cups and spacer sleeve.

 

[Bubba]

Could be an ejector issue. Normally the striker is trapped to the rear when the gun is ready to fire and won't flop around unless the trigger is pulled or the slide is back. I wonder if, when you racked the slide, the ejector didn't bump the round off the extractor and stayed against the breech face long enough for the striker to be loose. How did the cartridge come out when you cleared the gun? Did it just kinda fall out or was it ejected clear with a force proportionate to the force you used when racking the slide?

 

[IndianaResident]

Sorry about that, I had to shut down for awhile, too much lightening in the area. If that strike is happening while chambering I would think yes a AD is definitely a possibility! My best guess (and that is all it is) is that there is some piece of debris in the firing pin channel, brass shaving or whatever that intermittently is causing the firing pin to be stuck in the forward position. Without looking I cannot tell. I would still detail strip the slide and clean the firing pin channel, inspect the spring cups, spacer sleeve and firing pin channel to make sure there are no burrs etc. If the firearm has a high round count it might be worthwhile to go ahead and replace the channel liner,spring cups and spacer sleeve.

I'll go ahead and clean it again, but its going to be hard to say "its fixed" and trust loading it without actually identifying a fixing a problem. As far as the firing pin channel, if I don't want oil in there is it best to....blow it out with air?

Could be an ejector issue. Normally the striker is trapped to the rear when the gun is ready to fire and won't flop around unless the trigger is pulled or the slide is back. I wonder if, when you racked the slide, the ejector didn't bump the round off the extractor and stayed against the breech face long enough for the striker to be loose. How did the cartridge come out when you cleared the gun? Did it just kinda fall out or was it ejected clear with a force proportionate to the force you used when racking the slide?

I ejected it canted to the right, into my cupped left hand, so don't really recall the force it left with, unfortunately. Are you suggesting a continuing condition with the extractor that needs fixing, or a freak occurrence?

Thanks for the input, both of you.

 

[Vince49]

Not sure where you are located but the folks down at Bradis in Camby are about the most knowledgeable Glock people in the area. I would try to take it to Shooter or one of the others in the shop to have them check it out.

 

[f'nstar]

Looks like the firing pin safety didn't hold the firing pin in place and when the slide slammed home the firing pin came up and tapped the primer may check the firing pin safety.

 

[ThrottleJockey]

I can't believe no has said it yet....GLOCK, duh.

 

[canav844]

Assuming there are no modifications to the G23 (particularly this 25 cent trigger polishing crap) take the slide off reset the trigger pin then insure it cannot push past the firing pin safety, try this in a few different orientations to make sure that the spring holding the firing pin safety is properly in place and not broken or missing or incorrectly installed.

Also you manually ejected this round, did you rip the slide back or did you baby it and do it slowly trying to catch the round, and is your ejector straight? There is a reason the Glock says do not cover the ejection port to try and catch a round being ejected, because when you do it with a live round by hand if the force applied isn't right the round can fall back and the ejector can strike the primer and if you're trying to catch it there goes your finger. This has happened before it will probably happen again, and while rare it is possible this is what is happening to you.

As that has the Glock elliptical striker markings I'm leaning toward firing pin safety spring issue.

 

[IndianaResident]

I can't believe no has said it yet....GLOCK, duh.

STFU....

Assuming there are no modifications to the G23 (particularly this 25 cent trigger polishing crap)

Also you manually ejected this round, did you rip the slide back or did you baby it and do it slowly trying to catch the round, and is your ejector straight? There is a reason the Glock says do not cover the ejection port to try and catch a round being ejected, because when you do it with a live round by hand if the force applied isn't right the round can fall back and the ejector can strike the primer and if you're trying to catch it there goes your finger. This has happened before it will probably happen again, and while rare it is possible this is what is happening to you.

As that has the Glock elliptical striker markings I'm leaning toward firing pin safety spring issue.

There are no modifications.
When I clear a the gun I hold the slide between the base of my palm and the tips of my fingers, creating a an inch or so gap between my hand and the breech. I rack the slide back firmly (so quickly). The round jumping my hand, and my right hand engages the slide stop. I then inspect magwell and chamber, drop slide and dry fire. That's my procedure. I'm not sure if you were saying slow is better, or whatever, but i do it at speed, and with the gun 90 degrees to the right, so there's almost no chance of it falling back in, but....maybe?

take the slide off reset the trigger pin then insure it cannot push past the firing pin safety, try this in a few different orientations to make sure that the spring holding the firing pin safety is properly in place and not broken or missing or incorrectly installed.

I'm clear on taking the slide off and pushing the pin back manually, but not the rest of those steps. I don't know what I'm looking for with the "spring holding the firing pin safety" for example?

Thanks

 

[Rob377]

But like I said, I didn't pull the trigger on this round, that's the problem.

That dent is from loading the round into the chamber. I didn't want the striker/firing pin to hit the primer at all, so I don't think a hard primer is relevant here. Thanks for the suggestion though.

Not a FTF, its a Failure to Chamber Safely.

If you didn't pull the trigger, the striker shouldn't touch the primer. The firing pin/striker block mechanism prevents it. The block could be malfunctioning, but in the half dozen Glocks I've owned I've never seen that happen.

Based on your description of the unload process, my money is on the ejector causing that mark.

 

[Rob377]

STFU....

....
I'm clear on taking the slide off and pushing the pin back manually, but not the rest of those steps. I don't know what I'm looking for with the "spring holding the firing pin safety" for example?

Thanks

The firing pin safety spring is part #9.

http://www.midwayusa.com/General.mvc/Index/Schematics~CompactGlock

It should force the firing pin safety (FPS) down, where it'll block forward movement of the striker. In order for the striker to move past, the FPS needs to be pushed up into the slide. The lump on the front of your trigger bar does that normally.

 

[Vince49]

STFU....



I'm clear on taking the slide off and pushing the pin back manually, but not the rest of those steps. I don't know what I'm looking for with the "spring holding the firing pin safety" for example?

Thanks

When you depress the firing pin safety (the silver button) there should be spring tension on it. If the spring under it is broken or out of position the firing pin safety will not engage properly and might allow the pin to move forward.

 

[IndianaResident]

When you depress the firing pin safety (the silver button) there should be spring tension on it. If the spring under it is broken or out of position the firing pin safety will not engage properly and might allow the pin to move forward.

Okay, got it. That part functions fine, or at least spring back down when I stop pushing it in (like Vince had me to yesterday to test the freedom of the pin).

At this point I'll take it to the 1500 and see if I can locate an armorer there, but I'm liking the idea of the extractor having made the mark. Though, size-wise, it seems consistent with the striker pattern in fired rounds.

 

[tomc]

I don't own a Glock, but I've had similar issues with my Steyr M40A1 with light strikes. In my case I've noticed that the slide did not go all the way forward, so when the firing pin strikes, it doesn't go far enough to set the primer off, but leaves a dent instead. I've narrowed down the issue to either my guide rod or the guide rod spring, as the plastic guide rod it came with ended up with deep gouges all over it (I've replaced it with a steel one). So take a look at your slide next time it doesn't strike.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

We just went through this with the police and ARs and far be from me of all people to beat a dead horse . . . but . . .

Question here is, why did this happen?

Because it is a firearm. Ezz gon, ezz not safe.

Every platform, every single firearm can discharge upon loading or unloading, especially those with inertia firing pins.

Think about your dented primer when you hear "just load it in the parking lot" tomorrow at the Indy 1500, a gun store or a gun range.

I think you have the right idea, get it checked out and talk to a gunsmith about it.