People think I'm nuts for worrying about nuclear war

[wakproductions]

When I watch the news events in Ukraine - Putin's threats and Biden's incompetence - I have concern that the United States could have a nuclear weapons exchange with Russia. It probably won't escalate to a full scale war at first. Likely, the first of such weapons used would be low yield tactical nukes on the Ukranian battlefield. But I worry that the warmongering people running this country will make the wrong strategic moves which could result in nuclear attacks on American soil very soon after.

ANYONE I express this concern to suggesting that we make a plan to find shelter tells me one of two things:
1. I'm getting too worked up over the mainstream news, it ain't gonna happen
2. If it does happen, I wouldn't want to be alive anyway because there would be so much devastation that life would be too hard

I don't know how to deal with this kind of response. I think it is entirely likely that it won't be all-out armageddon, but something could happen where it will be necessary to temporarily seek shelter from radioactive fallout. A nuclear exchange in my view is more likely to be limited and survivable. Unfortunately, I do not have an underground shelter that's accessible to me right now and I don't know where I can go.

Does anyone here have similar experiences dealing with people about this? What can I do to secure a shelter despite everyone around me not caring and not helping?

 

[KittySlayer]

ANYONE I express this concern to... I don't know how to deal with this kind of response... A nuclear exchange in my view is more likely to be limited and survivable...

First rule of prepping is OPSEC. Stop talking to the sheep because they will be competing for the same resources you already have or need for your family.

Online like your post is one way to gain knowledge and information anonymously. While there are some on INGO that have experience, particularly local knowledge, you might find other focused survival/prepping forums with more helpful information.

Locally you might reach out to the government. They are supposed to have plans in place but getting the information from someone (competent?) might be challenging.

 

[Ingomike]

I just cannot see this situation being at the top of the list to be concerned about.

I am far more concerned about the loss of rule of law, shifting into globalism, and the destruction of our constitutional way of life than nucs falling.

 

[wakproductions]

Locally you might reach out to the government. They are supposed to have plans in place but getting the information from someone (competent?) might be challenging.

Not sure I would trust a shelter run by the local government. Look what happened to the people who sought shelter from the government during Hurricane Katrina. They are not allowed to leave (enforced with guns) from that crime-ridden literal ********.

 

[Scott58]

They'll try and depend on world condemnation first.

 

[AndreusMaximus]

First of all, don't listen to the "it's never gonna happen" folks. That's just normalcy bias and/or laziness talking; I'm no political scientist, but I'm pretty sure if there was ever a chance for nuclear war to happen, that chance has got to be higher right now than at any point since the cold war.

That being said, don't let it become a paranoia that defines your life (though I'm sure you know this already.) If I had to place a bet, I would still bet against nuclear war happening in the next few years, but even a less than 50% chance is still something worth thinking about and doing any preparation you reasonably can.

The difficulty is that unless you have money/resources far above what the average person has, you're not going to be able to build a fallout-proof bunker. For that you would need air and water re-purification systems, plenty of stored food, air-tight underground facilities large enough to hold all this, some type of remote-access sensor to keep tabs on radiation levels outside without going outside yourself, etc. Anything else is just a half-measure that may or may not keep you from being exposed to radiation.

So for now, IMHO, unless you do have the resources to build, all by yourself, such an underground facility, I would focus more on survival skills and a plan to move to and survive in unspecified remote areas on very short notice. Radiation levels will vary drastically depending on location, and if nukes start to drop, I believe your best bet for survival is either to have some reliable plan in place to make it out of high-population areas that are likely to be targets (and also military bases; some military bases in remote, unpopulated areas will become targets, too) BEFORE most people start to flee and make travel impossible. And don't just plan on "bugging out" to a specific place. Even if you have chosen a certain remote area, or already live in a remote area, it could end up being close enough to a nuke attack, for unforeseen reasons, to become contaminated, so you should be prepared to change your destination in a moment.

For the above reasons, if it were me, I would say an SUV loaded with extra fuel cans, non-perishable food, a water filtration system, lots of 22LR for hunting, and some other ammo for self-defense, basic camping tools, paper maps for when/if GPS goes down, a radio for listening to any emergency broadcasts that are able to continue, and if at all possible, and perhaps most importantly, some means determining levels of radioactivity in your immediate area, would be a much more attainable, and even more useful, goal than an underground bunker.

 

[KittySlayer]

Not sure I would trust a shelter run by the local government. Look what happened to the people who sought shelter from the government during Hurricane Katrina. They are not allowed to leave (enforced with guns) from that crime-ridden literal ********.

I was not suggesting going to a government shelter, rather getting the details of the government plan.

Start looking around for potential shelters in your area. A business building like an office that will be shut down if the bomb(s) drops. Someplace that will have limited people around for instance an office park or even industrial area as no one will be showing up for work. Think about which ones might have adequate shelter that you could potentially access (i.e. windows).

 

[wakproductions]

First of all, don't listen to the "it's never gonna happen" folks. That's just normalcy bias and/or laziness talking; I'm no political scientist, but I'm pretty sure if there was ever a chance for nuclear war to happen, that chance has got to be higher right now than at any point since the cold war.

That being said, don't let it become a paranoia that defines your life (though I'm sure you know this already.) If I had to place a bet, I would still bet against nuclear war happening in the next few years, but even a less than 50% chance is still something worth thinking about and doing any preparation you reasonably can.

The difficulty is that unless you have money/resources far above what the average person has, you're not going to be able to build a fallout-proof bunker. For that you would need air and water re-purification systems, plenty of stored food, air-tight underground facilities large enough to hold all this, some type of remote-access sensor to keep tabs on radiation levels outside without going outside yourself, etc. Anything else is just a half-measure that may or may not keep you from being exposed to radiation.

So for now, IMHO, unless you do have the resources to build, all by yourself, such an underground facility, I would focus more on survival skills and a plan to move to and survive in unspecified remote areas on very short notice. Radiation levels will vary drastically depending on location, and if nukes start to drop, I believe your best bet for survival is either to have some reliable plan in place to make it out of high-population areas that are likely to be targets (and also military bases; some military bases in remote, unpopulated areas will become targets, too) BEFORE most people start to flee and make travel impossible. And don't just plan on "bugging out" to a specific place. Even if you have chosen a certain remote area, or already live in a remote area, it could end up being close enough to a nuke attack, for unforeseen reasons, to become contaminated, so you should be prepared to change your destination in a moment.

For the above reasons, if it were me, I would say an SUV loaded with extra fuel cans, non-perishable food, a water filtration system, lots of 22LR for hunting, and some other ammo for self-defense, basic camping tools, paper maps for when/if GPS goes down, a radio for listening to any emergency broadcasts that are able to continue, and if at all possible, and perhaps most importantly, some means determining levels of radioactivity in your immediate area, would be a much more attainable, and even more useful, goal than an underground bunker.

Agreed with all you said! I am formulating plans for a lot of what you mention. 2 radiation dosimeters to monitors levels. While I don't have the resources to have a perfect bunker situation, all I want is a first step is to know which basement or concrete building I can go into with my kid and wait out the 24 hours after a detonation. My research tell me that the deadliness of fallout rapidly declines if you can wait it out for a day. We may not have air and water filtration, but a concrete structure with some bottled water and a few other supplies should be enough to help you avoid the worst of it.

I'm very stressed because I have a very difficult to deal with exwife who I worry would cause problems in enacting a plan to keep our kid safe during such a time.

A part of my plan involves getting out farther from the city at the first sign that a nuclear conflict is imminent. I believe there will be plenty of warning and increased threats. Like I said, Putin will probably use a nuke in Ukraine first, in which case we can call it a nuclear war. he 24 hours following that incident will be critical because US response will determine whether it escalates or deescalates.

 

[spencer rifle]

Looks like fiat currency collapse might be higher on the list considering our gov financial incompetence.

Iodine tablets/miso soup for iodine overload will help in dealing with with some short-term fallout dangers (radioactive iodine will kill your thyroid, but has a short half-life, measured in days).
Surface water will be contaminated first, so use underground sources early. Then as surface water clears, underground water may be next due to leaching.
Dosimeters will give you a reading after you have already been exposed. You might want to look into a Geiger-counter type unit to give real-time warning of hot spots to avoid.
Portable air filtration (gas masks) could be helpful during fallout events to filter radioactive dust.

 

[wakproductions]

Looks like fiat currency collapse might be higher on the list considering our gov financial incompetence.

Iodine tablets/miso soup for iodine overload will help in dealing with with some short-term fallout dangers (radioactive iodine will kill your thyroid, but has a short half-life, measured in days).
Surface water will be contaminated first, so use underground sources early. Then as surface water clears, underground water may be next due to leaching.
Dosimeters will give you a reading after you have already been exposed. You might want to look into a Geiger-counter type unit to give real-time warning of hot spots to avoid.
Portable air filtration (gas masks) could be helpful during fallout events to filter radioactive dust.

Currency - I agree. There are many disasters to prepare for and have plans for most of them, this post is specifically about the nuclear threat.

I have iodine. Question: Is there any difference between the IOSAT 14-pill packs and a generic bottle of iodine pills or liquid iodine?

Water - the makeshift shelter plan I'm working on will have bottled water and canned food stored at the location.

Not familiar with the dosimeter vs Geiger counter distinction. The one I have clicks. What's your opinion of this one?

Amazon product ASIN B071JWB7TJ

Portable air filtration - got em.

 

[Ingomike]

I just cannot see this situation being at the top of the list to be concerned about.

I am far more concerned about the loss of rule of law, shifting into globalism, and the destruction of our constitutional way of life than nucs falling.

BTW, not implying it can never happen, just not at the top of my list of concerns.

 

[AndreusMaximus]

Agreed with all you said! I am formulating plans for a lot of what you mention. 2 radiation dosimeters to monitors levels. While I don't have the resources to have a perfect bunker situation, all I want is a first step is to know which basement or concrete building I can go into with my kid and wait out the 24 hours after a detonation. My research tell me that the deadliness of fallout rapidly declines if you can wait it out for a day. We may not have air and water filtration, but a concrete structure with some bottled water and a few other supplies should be enough to help you avoid the worst of it.

I suppose whether or not a shelter would be useful depends so much on specific circumstances. If you have a reliable way of measuring radiation levels, and you have a good feel for what's deadly and what's not (which has to be a calculation based on both the level of radiation and the amount/duration of exposure) I would think that's the most important first step, and from there you just have to be as adaptable as possible. If you can't absolutely guarantee that you, whichever loved ones you are responsible for, and the supplies you need make into the shelter before being coated with radioactive fallout, AND that absolutely no one and nothing that could possibly be contaminated will be able to force entry during those first 24 hours, then yes, a shelter could be useful. But that's a pretty hard situation to come by, so if in the moment it doesn't look like that's going to happen, I'd take my chances just trying to book it as fast as possible away from that looming mushroom cloud before the radioactive dust from the upper atmosphere starts to make its way to the ground. Of course, if the number of nukes used is so high that the entire country is inevitably going to be covered in deadly doses of radiation, then whatever shelter you can muster is going to be a safer bet, but I feel like that's a less likely scenario. Wouldn't hurt to be prepared either way, if you can be, though, but unless you have a solid basement yourself, I'm not really getting any great ideas for what such a shelter would be, except maybe an office in a small city/town that's far enough away from any potential ground zero? But then you don't really know who else is going to be around to screw up your plans.

It's a tricky question, to be sure. I still think I'd go with get the heck out of wherever a nuke lands as a better plan.

 

[bobzilla]

Worrying about a situation such as this is like worrying that a meteorite will land on your head. Can it happen? Yep. Is there a damn thing you can do about it? Nope. So worrying serves no purpose. When it serves a purpose is when its a topic you have direct input on. Something that you can effect change and make it not happen.

In this case, all you can do is prep yourself and family they best you can. If it happens and you're not in the vaporized area hope you can outlast the radiation. Past that? Enjoy your life. Do what you want to do and when the end comes you'll have few regrets.

 

[MindfulMan]

Having spent a substantial tour of duty with the Air Force, as a Nuclear Weapons Specialist
...... "the living will envy the dead" is a true axiom.

Even if you survive for a while, the world you knew will be gone. It won't be a world that you wish to live within.

I realize that the OP isn't satisfied with this answer, but I stand on its truth.

 

[AndreusMaximus]

Worrying about a situation such as this is like worrying that a meteorite will land on your head. Can it happen? Yep. Is there a damn thing you can do about it? Nope. So worrying serves no purpose. When it serves a purpose is when its a topic you have direct input on. Something that you can effect change and make it not happen.

In this case, all you can do is prep yourself and family they best you can. If it happens and you're not in the vaporized area hope you can outlast the radiation. Past that? Enjoy your life. Do what you want to do and when the end comes you'll have few regrets.

As I've already stated, I don't believe in worrying about it to the point where it affects your life, but a little bit of thinking/planning seems like it could go a long way to increasing your odds of survival. Sure, if you're in the blast zone, there's nothing to be done, but if you're just close enough to see the mushroom cloud forming on the horizon, the next few minutes are going to be crucial in determining whether you live or die of radiation poisoning, and for those of us who have an interest in continuing our lives even without the cushy, pampered existence we have today, it's something worth at least devoting a little bit of time and thought to, I'd say.

Having spent a substantial tour of duty with the Air Force, as a Nuclear Weapons Specialist
...... "the living will envy the dead" is a true axiom.

Even if you survive for a while, the world you knew will be gone. It won't be a world that you wish to live within.

I realize that the OP isn't satisfied with this answer, but I stand on its truth.

I guess I really don't understand this reasoning. For instance, life in 3rd world countries isn't great, but there are plenty of people there who are happy to be alive. If you can manage to avoid the radiation long enough to say, escape to the Congo, I would really think you're going to be safe from nukes there. Yes, I understand that fallout enters the upper atmosphere and circles the globe, yada yada, but is that really going to be dense enough to turn the whole globe into deadly wasteland? Somehow I just don't buy it.

 

[Lpherr]

I guess I really don't understand this reasoning. For instance, life in 3rd world countries isn't great, but there are plenty of people there who are happy to be alive. If you can manage to avoid the radiation long enough to say, escape to the Congo, I would really think you're going to be safe from nukes there. Yes, I understand that fallout enters the upper atmosphere and circles the globe, yada yada, but is that really going to be dense enough to turn the whole globe into deadly wasteland? Somehow I just don't buy it.

Since none of this has ever been tested in reality, and no one knows to what extreme it will continue, there really isn't any preparation
that can be relied upon. The reality is likely going to be substantially different than expected, and if things are only as bad as expected, it's still not going to be an easy life to survive.
Watching apocalyptical movies as any basis, who would really want a life like that?

 

[wakproductions]

Worrying about a situation such as this is like worrying that a meteorite will land on your head. Can it happen? Yep. Is there a damn thing you can do about it? Nope. So worrying serves no purpose. When it serves a purpose is when its a topic you have direct input on. Something that you can effect change and make it not happen.

Having spent a substantial tour of duty with the Air Force, as a Nuclear Weapons Specialist
...... "the living will envy the dead" is a true axiom.

Even if you survive for a while, the world you knew will be gone. It won't be a world that you wish to live within.

I realize that the OP isn't satisfied with this answer, but I stand on its truth.

These are the kinds of responses that are upsetting to me. Perhaps "worrying" is the wrong word to use. I'm preparing, and this is a disaster preparedness discussion section so what's constructive about comments like this? All I'm trying to figure out is what's a reasonable plan to find a basement or concrete structure in the event of an emergency? Having such a plan could be useful for other disasters like tornadoes as well.

We also don't know the extent of a nuclear exchange. Most disasters that occur are enough to shatter normalcy bias, but don't necessarily get as bad as we think they could get. A nuclear war might involve a limited amount of destruction before a political resolution is made that ends the conflict. In that case, society will move on under a new normal, but to make it through that time window having some minimal level of preparedness will help improve your odds survival.

 

[bobzilla]

As I've already stated, I don't believe in worrying about it to the point where it affects your life, but a little bit of thinking/planning seems like it could go a long way to increasing your odds of survival. Sure, if you're in the blast zone, there's nothing to be done, but if you're just close enough to see the mushroom cloud forming on the horizon, the next few minutes are going to be crucial in determining whether you live or die of radiation poisoning, and for those of us who have an interest in continuing our lives even without the cushy, pampered existence we have today, it's something worth at least devoting a little bit of time and thought to, I'd say.

I guess I really don't understand this reasoning. For instance, life in 3rd world countries isn't great, but there are plenty of people there who are happy to be alive. If you can manage to avoid the radiation long enough to say, escape to the Congo, I would really think you're going to be safe from nukes there. Yes, I understand that fallout enters the upper atmosphere and circles the globe, yada yada, but is that really going to be dense enough to turn the whole globe into deadly wasteland? Somehow I just don't buy it.

If you've looked at the 500 nuke map, we're screwed here. Prevailing winds will bring the rads from all the western strikes for weeks to come. There's enough strikes in this area to make the blast radius pretty severe. There will be no power for decades. I hope you can survive and all that but I'm not putting money on it. If I was in Eastern Oregon maybe I might have a different outlook but meh. We'll do our normal preps and see what happens.

There will be no wildlife not irradiated to hunt. Water sources will be severely polluted. Even if you do have enough water and food to last he month it takes for the initial rad clouds to pass, you'll need to have enough food and water and transportation to get you to "the congo". That's going to be even more problematic.

 

[bobzilla]

These are the kinds of responses that are upsetting to me. Perhaps "worrying" is the wrong word to use. I'm preparing, and this is a disaster preparedness discussion section so what's constructive about comments like this? All I'm trying to figure out is what's a reasonable plan to find a basement or concrete structure in the event of an emergency? Having such a plan could be useful for other disasters like tornadoes as well.

We also don't know the extent of a nuclear exchange. Most disasters that occur are enough to shatter normalcy bias, but don't necessarily get as bad as we think they could get. A nuclear war might involve a limited amount of destruction before a political resolution is made that ends the conflict. In that case, society will move on under a new normal, but to make it through that time window having some minimal level of preparedness will help improve your odds survival.

See my second paragraph above. A true nuclear exchange is the real life Kobiyashi Maru. There is no winning and Captain Kirk isn't real

 

[wakproductions]

I suppose whether or not a shelter would be useful depends so much on specific circumstances. If you have a reliable way of measuring radiation levels, and you have a good feel for what's deadly and what's not (which has to be a calculation based on both the level of radiation and the amount/duration of exposure) I would think that's the most important first step, and from there you just have to be as adaptable as possible. If you can't absolutely guarantee that you, whichever loved ones you are responsible for, and the supplies you need make into the shelter before being coated with radioactive fallout, AND that absolutely no one and nothing that could possibly be contaminated will be able to force entry during those first 24 hours, then yes, a shelter could be useful. But that's a pretty hard situation to come by, so if in the moment it doesn't look like that's going to happen, I'd take my chances just trying to book it as fast as possible away from that looming mushroom cloud before the radioactive dust from the upper atmosphere starts to make its way to the ground. Of course, if the number of nukes used is so high that the entire country is inevitably going to be covered in deadly doses of radiation, then whatever shelter you can muster is going to be a safer bet, but I feel like that's a less likely scenario. Wouldn't hurt to be prepared either way, if you can be, though, but unless you have a solid basement yourself, I'm not really getting any great ideas for what such a shelter would be, except maybe an office in a small city/town that's far enough away from any potential ground zero? But then you don't really know who else is going to be around to screw up your plans.

It's a tricky question, to be sure. I still think I'd go with get the heck out of wherever a nuke lands as a better plan.

Get out of dodge has actually has been my Plan A for a long time now. I live on the very south edge of Indianapolis so getting distance from the city within 15 minutes is a feasible. However, I've done some additional research to reevaluate this plan. When the nuke initially goes off, there will be an intense flash of light that can blind your eyes for about 1 minute and may cause retinal damage. That might cause you to crash while driving. Next, the shockwave extends far beyond the thermal damage zone and is powerful enough to blow out windows from miles away. It if it doesn't blow your vehicle off the road, it might shatter your rear window. Other people might also have the same plan and will be driving around like idiots crashing into you.

I don't know whether I can come up with a sheltering plan that's good enough, but I want to think about options that would improve the odds of survival. If I end up in an unfamiliar area, just knowing what materials to look for like concrete, dirt, bottles of water can probably guide you where to get some shielding from fallout if all else fails.

To all the people who say its futile to prepare for this, what the hell are you doing on a disaster preparedness board anyway?