Point shooting with wax bullets is good training

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  • jboritzki

    Marksman
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    Oct 10, 2009
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    Beech Grove
    Years ago, I use to practice point shooting in my basement. I would re prime spent .45ACP cases and then use the shell like a cookie cutter in a tray of candle wax that I had melted and let cool in the tray. No gun powder, just the primer. If I had to guess, I'd say the wax bullet comes out about as fast as a BB from a BB gun. .45 would not go through cloth, 9mm would. It's pretty quiet too, about like a cap gun.

    Anyway, with a laser sight attached to my pistol, (about $15 on Ebay these days) I was able to get very accurate in very little time by practicing pulling the firearm slowly, building speed, putting the laser on the target, and pulling the trigger. Before I knew it, I was hitting right where I wanted to hit without using the sights. After a few hundred rounds, turn the laser off and you'll see just how accurate you've gotten.

    To me, point shooting is what you're going to be doing if you ever need to use your firearm to defend yourself. Bad guys don't typically give you time to aim at them and if you're actually afraid that you're about to be murdered, then the bad guy is probably pretty close to you. Time seems to slow way down when you're this scared because your brain starts working faster than normal and you don't want to shoot at nothing in hopes that the noise or flash will make the bad guy flee. When you're this scared, you notice how long it takes to get the gun into position and aim and your focus is likely to be on him and what he is doing and not on your sights. My opinion of course.

    Not everyone has property to go shoot at like I have, so wax bullets will give you more trigger time to hone your skills at home. Besides that, it's just fun to do. I think the only time shooting a gun would not be fun is if you ever had to use it for defense. If that ever happens you had better be able to hit your target, sights or no sights.
     

    Bendrx

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    Sep 3, 2009
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    I've found that when times seems to slow down, it's amazing at how much more quickly you can react and move in my personal experience. Just wondering, are you refering to generall pistol control, or using your middle finger for the trigger? I've seen some "point shooting" before.
     

    jboritzki

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    Oct 10, 2009
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    Beech Grove
    I've found that when times seems to slow down, it's amazing at how much more quickly you can react and move in my personal experience. Just wondering, are you refering to generall pistol control, or using your middle finger for the trigger? I've seen some "point shooting" before.

    Just general pistol control. Getting the pistol out of the holster and immediately getting it on target without taking the time to raise the weapon to your face. It is amazing how quickly you can react under stress but it's also amazing to me at how often people, police and citizens, miss their targets when in a defensive situation.
     

    midget

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    Apr 2, 2010
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    Leo
    Years ago, I use to practice point shooting in my basement. I would re prime spent .45ACP cases and then use the shell like a cookie cutter in a tray of candle wax that I had melted and let cool in the tray. No gun powder, just the primer. If I had to guess, I'd say the wax bullet comes out about as fast as a BB from a BB gun. .45 would not go through cloth, 9mm would. It's pretty quiet too, about like a cap gun.

    Anyway, with a laser sight attached to my pistol, (about $15 on Ebay these days) I was able to get very accurate in very little time by practicing pulling the firearm slowly, building speed, putting the laser on the target, and pulling the trigger. Before I knew it, I was hitting right where I wanted to hit without using the sights. After a few hundred rounds, turn the laser off and you'll see just how accurate you've gotten.

    To me, point shooting is what you're going to be doing if you ever need to use your firearm to defend yourself. Bad guys don't typically give you time to aim at them and if you're actually afraid that you're about to be murdered, then the bad guy is probably pretty close to you. Time seems to slow way down when you're this scared because your brain starts working faster than normal and you don't want to shoot at nothing in hopes that the noise or flash will make the bad guy flee. When you're this scared, you notice how long it takes to get the gun into position and aim and your focus is likely to be on him and what he is doing and not on your sights. My opinion of course.

    Not everyone has property to go shoot at like I have, so wax bullets will give you more trigger time to hone your skills at home. Besides that, it's just fun to do. I think the only time shooting a gun would not be fun is if you ever had to use it for defense. If that ever happens you had better be able to hit your target, sights or no sights.

    Out of curiosity, did the primer give up enough gas to actually recock the gun?
     

    451_Detonics

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    Mar 28, 2010
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    North Central Indiana
    If the bad guys is so close you don't have time to bring the gun up to eye level to aim then the BG should be close enough to contact shoot, actually pressing the gun against the BG before pulling the trigger, if he isn't that close you have time to bring the gun to eye level and aim. Even Bill Jordan, one of the best point shooters in the world stated it was mostly a trick and not something he would want to hang his life on.

    My experience with both wax and rubber bullets require the flash hole to be drilled out to prevent the primer from backing out of the case and locking up a revolver.
     

    downzero

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    Jun 16, 2010
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    Point shooting is not good training, regardless of whether it's with wax bullets or lead ones.
     

    GIJEW

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    Mar 14, 2009
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    Point shooting is not good training, regardless of whether it's with wax bullets or lead ones.
    In "No 2nd Place Winner" Bill Jordan DID advocate point shooting out to about 7yds and hip shooting under 3yds (more a matter of shooting WITH weapon retention). Likewise Jim Cirrillo advocated point shooting and devised a method dubbed the "Cirrillo nose-point" for hip shooting distance.
    Before there were red dot sights etc., the IDF used a point shooting method called "yishur mekurav" (approximately aligned) for shooting on the run, charging the enemy. It resembles a run & shoot shuffle with the rifle held "weaver" like at shoulder height while looking OVER the sights. Hip shooting was taught too.
    Yes, using your sights to establish "muscle memory" is great, "training wheels" in Suarez' words, but that doesn't make practicing point shooting bad. I've found wax or rubber bullets to be great feedback for HIP shooting where you just don't have a visual index like looking over the sights.
     

    Serial Crusher

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    Jan 27, 2009
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    Northwest Indiana
    Longbows, spears, slings and rocks don't have sights, but humans can direct all of these things accurately. With practice, it is astounding how accurately. All of these things are the reason humans are still around, our entire race has hung its life on them. There is absolutely no reason a pistol or rifle should be different. I'm not expecting to point shoot a bowling pin at thirty yards, I'm expecting to hit targets within 30 feet as fast as possible.
     

    Roadie

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    Point shooting is not good training, regardless of whether it's with wax bullets or lead ones.

    So, you would actually use the sights if a bad guy was 5 ft away from you and closing, or would you "point shoot"? :dunno:

    A lot of experts disagree with you, so I am interested in the logic behind that opinion...
     

    96firephoenix

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    I'm kinda interested as to how the wax goes through the gun. does it not foul it at all, or it is something a thorough cleaning will take care of?

    I'm very interested in "point shooting," because I would think that in a real BG situation, pulling the gun fully would take about 2x the time that pulling to a point shooting position.
     

    Jack Ryan

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    So, you would actually use the sights if a bad guy was 5 ft away from you and closing, or would you "point shoot"? :dunno:

    A lot of experts disagree with you, so I am interested in the logic behind that opinion...

    Two in the chest but if he was still standing one well aimed hole right between the eyes should put him on the ground.
     

    Roadie

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    Two in the chest but if he was still standing one well aimed hole right between the eyes should put him on the ground.

    OK, I am not clear on the details here..

    Are you saying:
    "..two in the chest 'point and shoot', giving you time to aim and shoot for the head if needed"?
    .. or are you saying that you would have time to aim for all three shots with the guy 5ft away and moving toward you?
     

    Jack Ryan

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    OK, I am not clear on the details here..

    Are you saying:
    "..two in the chest 'point and shoot', giving you time to aim and shoot for the head if needed"?
    .. or are you saying that you would have time to aim for all three shots with the guy 5ft away and moving toward you?

    Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying.:rolleyes:
     

    Jack Ryan

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    Wow, thanks for the help. Remind me never to ask for clarification again.

    Sorry we can't all have your years of experience Jack.

    If it's as difficult for you to understand as you act I suggest you put the gun away and carry a bat. Would you point swing that or "aim" it and at what distance? Is there a rule for something like that? What if he had a knife? What if it's a big knife?

    Better yet put some common sense in your pocket first, then pick up the bat.:dunno:

    The entire concept is God awful ignorant. Do you people ever actually fire a gun? IF THE BAD GUY IS CLOSE ENOUGH YOU DON'T NEED TO AIM TO HIT HIM THEN PULL THE FRIGGING TRIGGER. IF YOU CAN'T THEN AIM IT! IF YOU DON'T KNOW THEY GET YOUR GUN OUT AND SHOOT IT ONCE IN A WHILE.

    Throw the stupid advice books and magazines on the ground in front of you, draw and shoot it. That's about all they are good for and you may actually learn what you need to know to use that iron you are packing around.

    You don't need years of expirience for that. You need about an ounce of common sense.
     

    Roadie

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    If it's as difficult for you to understand as you act I suggest you put the gun away and carry a bat. Would you point swing that or "aim" it and at what distance? Is there a rule for something like that? What if he had a knife? What if it's a big knife?

    Better yet put some common sense in your pocket first, then pick up the bat.:dunno:

    The entire concept is God awful ignorant. Do you people ever actually fire a gun? IF THE BAD GUY IS CLOSE ENOUGH YOU DON'T NEED TO AIM TO HIT HIM THEN PULL THE FRIGGING TRIGGER. IF YOU CAN'T THEN AIM IT! IF YOU DON'T KNOW THEY GET YOUR GUN OUT AND SHOOT IT ONCE IN A WHILE.

    Throw the stupid advice books and magazines on the ground in front of you, draw and shoot it. That's about all they are good for and you may actually learn what you need to know to use that iron you are packing around.

    You don't need years of expirience for that. You need about an ounce of common sense.

    Funny you attack me, the guy asking for clarification on what YOU posted, instead of the guy that said point shooting was not good training.

    I asked for clarification on what YOU said, not on what *I* would do. :rolleyes:

    You might have understood that, had you read the rest of the thread. :dunno:
     
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