Police Mag Dump

[DadSmith]

Way. Over 50% hit ratio on a guy hunkered down behind a fallen tree.

That was some good shooting.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

That was some good shooting.

Edited my post above to include a bit more information.

 

[DadSmith]

Edited my post above to include a bit more information.

They definitely should switch to a CZ P10F for the extra capacity.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

They definitely should switch to a CZ P10F for the extra capacity.

I think the good Sheriff may have been having a bit of fun. I tend not to believe that 10 swat officers would only have 110 rds of ammo between them.

 

[ECS686]

Not defending that officer at all. But your statement is incorrect, they were serving a search warrant for that address.

Sheriff Judd seems to have a good explanation. We shot him, a lot. And that was the end of the gunfight.


Or when asked why they shot the suspect 68 times.
"That's all the bullets we had, or we would have shot him more,"

Accused of killing deputy, suspect shot 68 times

A fugitive gunman accused of killing a Florida sheriff’s deputy was shot 68 times by SWAT team officers who found him hiding in the woods, according to autopsy results.

www.nbcnews.com

Both seem acceptable.

That was a Sheriff pandering to his base and trying to be “that funny guy”. And a while SWAT team has more rounds than that but catchy comments have to be well catchy comments.

Also that was an active shootout (not one or two rounds fired by the BG) after a deputy was killed is a different scenario like bank of America case etc

 

[BE Mike]

I would like to propose a contest:
Lets take INGO' 5 best amateur shooters, and 5 random police officers.

Lets have both run 100 yards THEN engage a moving target, under fire, and compare hit %.

Would there be donuts involved? I heard that there might be donuts involved!

 

[DadSmith]

I think the good Sheriff may have been having a bit of fun. I tend not to believe that 10 swat officers would only have 110 rds of ammo between them.

The main thing is this scumbag isn't around to kill, steal, or injure another innocent.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

That was a Sheriff pandering to his base and trying to be “that funny guy”. And a while SWAT team has more rounds than that but catchy comments have to be well catchy comments.

Also that was an active shootout (not one or two rounds fired by the BG) after a deputy was killed is a different scenario like bank of America case etc

Perhaps a bit of pandering, and I think some sarcasm was involved as well. Probably more sarcasm. 10 swat members 110 rds total. So 11 rds average per officer, I'm just going out on a limb and guess it was over in maybe 3 seconds, almost guaranteed less than 5. Figure the scum at the Greenwood mall fired what 24 rds in 15 seconds or less?

And yeah I'm sure they had more rounds than that. Heck I'm guessing 10 cops from back in the revolver days had more than that.

Can you link me to the Bank of America case please? I don't believe I'm familiar with it.

 

[ECS686]

Perhaps a bit of pandering, and I think some sarcasm was involved as well. Probably more sarcasm. 10 swat members 110 rds total. So 11 rds average per officer, I'm just going out on a limb and guess it was over in maybe 3 seconds, almost guaranteed less than 5. Figure the scum at the Greenwood mall fired what 24 rds in 15 seconds or less?

And yeah I'm sure they had more rounds than that. Heck I'm guessing 10 cops from back in the revolver days had more than that.

Can you link me to the Bank of America case please? I don't believe I'm familiar with it.

There’s lots of angles and videos in on YouTube but in 1997 it caught LAPD off guard as rifles were not routinely carried back then by patrol officers.

Most times Officers/Civilians are in a shooting. The bank or America like Newhall was a shootout!

North Hollywood shootout - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Timjoebillybob]

There’s lots of angles and videos in on YouTube but in 1997 it caught LAPD off guard as rifles were not routinely carried back then by patrol officers.

Most times Officers/Civilians are in a shooting. The bank or America like Newhall was a shootout!

North Hollywood shootout - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Okay, that one. I thought you may have been talking something a bit more recent. Yeah the officers went to a local gun store and requisitioned some rifles for that one. IIRC there are a couple of them floating around with provenance that sell for some pretty decent cash when they come to market.

 

[ECS686]

Okay, that one. I thought you may have been talking something a bit more recent. Yeah the officers went to a local gun store and requisitioned some rifles for that one. IIRC there are a couple of them floating around with provenance that sell for some pretty decent cash when they come to market.

As far as numbers most LE shootings have less than 10 rounds by the officer exchanged (that’s an average) we can all fine a mag dump here or 1 shot there but if the average is 8 and you have 3 Officers there’s 24 so a thug getting hit 15 times can be explained away it can be a problematic sell to a public that scrutinizes a 2 round shooting let alone 60 GSW’s

I’m referring to a shooting and not a shootout

 

[Timjoebillybob]

As far as numbers most LE shootings have less than 10 rounds by the officer exchanged (that’s an average) we can all fine a mag dump here or 1 shot there but if the average is 8 and you have 3 Officers there’s 24 so a thug getting hit 15 times can be explained away it can be a problematic sell to a public that scrutinizes a 2 round shooting let alone 60 GSW’s

I’m referring to a shooting and not a shootout

Okay, the shooting that started this thread how many officers fired? How many hits did the guy take?

If the 60 gsw is one with the delivery driver who fled in the vehicle, then bailed wearing a ski mask. There were how many officers there?

 

[BugI02]

An impressive, well thought out reply. I'm guessing you're one of the people that think police are God-tier operators and infallible then?

Your luck, you are pushing it

Frank is the real deal, as are all of the INGO LEOs that I 'know'

 

[BugI02]

Okay, the shooting that started this thread how many officers fired? How many hits did the guy take?

If the 60 gsw is one with the delivery driver who fled in the vehicle, then bailed wearing a ski mask. There were how many officers there?

That's the Akron guy who fired at least twice at police during a vehicle chase, bailed wearing a ski mask (in July) and led police on a foot chase. Two attempted tasering failed, and at the denouement he turned at bay, reached into the waistband of his pants, and all eight officers in pursuit lit him up. Unknown to anyone at that time, he had left the gun in the car and so, of course, to the media he was an 'unarmed black man'

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

Your luck, you are pushing it

Frank is the real deal, as are all of the INGO LEOs that I 'know'

I appreciate the vote of confidence. I don't speak of myself with such high esteem. I have a job and I like to think I do it well. But everyone else is an expert so I learn a lot and overcome my shortcomings by being a member of INGO

 

[Timjoebillybob]

I appreciate the vote of confidence. I don't speak of myself with such high esteem. I have a job and I like to think I do it well. But everyone else is an expert so I learn a lot and overcome my shortcomings by being a member of INGO

You know something, I actually believe the first 3. Seriously. I think you and I maybe have butted heads a couple times on here. Mainly when I was new here. But for not knowing you in the "real" and just from on here, I'll second it and say you are the real deal. By that I'm not saying "god tier operator". But a good cop.

Which is not common, and know I don't mean that most cops are bad. Just like any profession you have the good, bad, and the average. IMO and this goes for all professions, the bulk is average a few good and a few bad.

And the laughter "like" was strictly for the 4th.

 

[littletommy]

I appreciate the vote of confidence. I don't speak of myself with such high esteem. I have a job and I like to think I do it well. But everyone else is an expert so I learn a lot and overcome my shortcomings by being a member of INGO

I watch a lot of Adam 12 and dragnet since I got a firestick, if you ever have any questions about being a better cop, pm me, I am a wealth of information!

 

[ECS686]

Okay, the shooting that started this thread how many officers fired? How many hits did the guy take?

If the 60 gsw is one with the delivery driver who fled in the vehicle, then bailed wearing a ski mask. There were how many officers there?

I don’t have the exact numbers of officers involved in the Akron case. However as I stated in an earlier post in my experience as an LE
trainer the problem is everyone is teaching how to shoot fast and a lot but almost no agency is training officers how to STOP SHOOTING. Part of this is the emphasis to basically ballistic masterbate at .20 splits they can not asses the situation AND that speed also causes them to miss OR not hit the upper thoracic area that tends to stop BGs rather quickly. Example LAPD SWAT standards are .50 or 1/2 second splits. But to a USPSA shooter that is slow. Well LAPD SWAT doesn’t miss and a parking lot doesn’t have a 5 minute walk through all targets get 2 rounds or more with a no penalty Mike.


I get we can find an exception to the one or two high round count cases (surprised nobody brought up the “why I carry 147 rounds on duty”)

Fact of the matter is when you shoot a suspect (legal use of force application) anything more than 20 hits (hits not total rounds fired) it’s bad optics all the way around. Not saying it can’t be justified but a lot of things get questioned and scrutinized (a lot more than a proctologist exam you get with a one or two round count shooting)

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

I watch a lot of Adam 12 and dragnet since I got a firestick, if you ever have any questions about being a better cop, pm me, I am a wealth of information!

I have seen almost every episode of Adam-12, and several of Dragnet. For training purposes of course. But I will definitely call you!

 

[BE Mike]

I was hoping that people could watch the video and make comments on current training, past training and what could be added to police firearms training. I am not a cop hater, by any means. Some cops have huge egos and can't abide criticism, but firearm trainers should be able to observe objectively and attempt to improve an officer's performance under extreme stress. I understand that many top police officials don't care one bit about training, especially firearms training. That's the worst part.