Politics, Power and Character

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  • Bapak2ja

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    A friend of mine recently wrote an excellent blog/article on the value of character in leadership. It is a well written article that makes an excellent point. here is the link: <http://www.linkedin.com/news?viewArticle=&articleID=190883288&gid=2421368&type=member&item=29510796&articleURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwp%2Eme%2FpZiRD-bd&urlhash=gJ8c&goback=%2Egde_2421368_member_29510796>.

    INGO has recently changed its rules, banning discussion of certain topics. This is an example of leadership. Many of our discussion threads, especially in this political forum, concern leadership and character. Our ongoing and heated discussions on OC vs. CC, our Second Amendment rights, our response to being stopped by a LEO and asked for our ID (or papers), are all impacted by the interaction of politics, power and character. For this reason, I open the subject here on INGO. My friend argues that character (a general term he uses for integrity, responsibility and other positive traits) is essential to leadership. I argue that it is a desirable trait in a leader, but not essential. This is my rely to my friend's post.

    Character is important, but regrettably it is not essential. Recent political leaders have demonstrated that it is possible to lead without character. The Big Lie, told often enough, with the complicity and support of a strong communication team, can overcome truth. In other situations, leaders caught in a lie can simply say, "It was necessary to get elected" or "It was only about sex," and remain powerful leaders. The culture determines if character is essential. If the culture does not honor or value integrity, it becomes less important in a leader. In many cultures, power is more important than character. If a leader has power, i.e. the ability to enforce his/her decisions regardless of follower agreement, character no longer is essential. Many historical leaders have demonstrated this principle. The Caesars of the Roman Empire, the rulers of the Ottoman Empire (especially in its early years), the Mongols, some of the popes of the Middle Ages, demonstrate the principle. Recently, Saddam Hussein exemplifies this. Power consistently trumps character in leadership.

    Perhaps the difference is the end result of the leadership. Leaders who generate positive results for their followers, tend to be the ones who have character. On the other hand, leaders who lack character bring negative results on their followers, organizations or nations. Character is the essential leadership trait to limit abuse of power.


    So, I open this thread to INGO for consideration: Is integrity essential to leadership? Is it an effective limit on abuse of power? How should evidence of character, or lack of it, influence our voting, our posting on INGO, our marriages? I really am looking forward to your replies.
     

    jbombelli

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    There are leaders, and there are bosses.

    Leaders lead. They inspire others to follow them, to the gates of Hell if necessary. They do this in part through strength of character, in part through charisma, in part through reputation, in part through integrity, among other factors. Nobody wants to follow a scumbag weakling who will stab them in the back if it serves his purpose.

    Bosses dictate policy, and try to "lead" through intimidation. That's not leadership. Contrary to those people's opinions, they are not leaders. They are dictators.

    There's a big difference.
     

    Blackhawk2001

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    I'm not a scholar of any sort, but I suspect that the Founding Fathers, while they sought men of integrity for leadership roles, were conversant enough with history to realize that power of any sort is corrosive of integrity and the values it engenders. That is why they placed so many checks and balances in the way of the government's creation of laws. I believe the system they set up for the federal govenment was envisioned as one that could be safely on a long leash if it was kept relatively powerless (as compared to local governments, which the average person could directly affect).

    In the military, "Leadership" is a complex of responsibilities, authorities, and loyalties (although I doubt anyone else would describe it in those terms and it isn't the "textbook" definition) which ultimately make it possible for a person in authority to order others to their deaths with the certainty that they will obey, because of their trust in that person and in their mission.

    The comparable quality of "Leadership" in government is the elected official who will sacrifice his career (position, re-election chances, etc.) to enact, implement, or bring about change that benefits his constituents, even if such actions are unpopular. Of course, this can be good (Winston Churchill during WWII, Harry Truman at the end of WWII and the Korean War), or bad (our current Pres and his disasterous economic initiatives).
     
    Last edited:
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    Jun 7, 2010
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    (INDY-BRipple)
    A friend of mine recently wrote an excellent blog/article on the value of character in leadership. It is a well written article that makes an excellent point. here is the link: <http://www.linkedin.com/news?viewArticle=&articleID=190883288&gid=2421368&type=member&item=29510796&articleURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwp%2Eme%2FpZiRD-bd&urlhash=gJ8c&goback=%2Egde_2421368_member_29510796>.

    INGO has recently changed its rules, banning discussion of certain topics. This is an example of leadership. Many of our discussion threads, especially in this political forum, concern leadership and character. Our ongoing and heated discussions on OC vs. CC, our Second Amendment rights, our response to being stopped by a LEO and asked for our ID (or papers), are all impacted by the interaction of politics, power and character. For this reason, I open the subject here on INGO. My friend argues that character (a general term he uses for integrity, responsibility and other positive traits) is essential to leadership. I argue that it is a desirable trait in a leader, but not essential. This is my rely to my friend's post.

    Character is important, but regrettably it is not essential. Recent political leaders have demonstrated that it is possible to lead without character. The Big Lie, told often enough, with the complicity and support of a strong communication team, can overcome truth. In other situations, leaders caught in a lie can simply say, "It was necessary to get elected" or "It was only about sex," and remain powerful leaders. The culture determines if character is essential. If the culture does not honor or value integrity, it becomes less important in a leader. In many cultures, power is more important than character. If a leader has power, i.e. the ability to enforce his/her decisions regardless of follower agreement, character no longer is essential. Many historical leaders have demonstrated this principle. The Caesars of the Roman Empire, the rulers of the Ottoman Empire (especially in its early years), the Mongols, some of the popes of the Middle Ages, demonstrate the principle. Recently, Saddam Hussein exemplifies this. Power consistently trumps character in leadership.

    Perhaps the difference is the end result of the leadership. Leaders who generate positive results for their followers, tend to be the ones who have character. On the other hand, leaders who lack character bring negative results on their followers, organizations or nations. Character is the essential leadership trait to limit abuse of power.

    So, I open this thread to INGO for consideration: Is integrity essential to leadership? Is it an effective limit on abuse of power? How should evidence of character, or lack of it, influence our voting, our posting on INGO, our marriages? I really am looking forward to your replies.


    Character, is in my opinion one of the most important thing's a Leader can demonstrate.
    Example: Would one desire to follow someone of evil or good desires? Characteristic is at the heart of being a Leader; I find it hard to suggest that people would follow a person who was an expert in his field, yet demonstrated "gangster" characteristics; I would further go on to suggest the "Power" then only comes from the Position, and not the honest value of the Leader.

    Our politicians have no demonstrated squat on leadership. They hold a title, but how many of us would follow them into a burning house? or to capture a hill?
    NO FRIEND, they have demonstrated this:

    1). They can direct (Not lead) this Nation. No one finds inspiration in our Politicians. I know I didnt grow up wishing I could be President, or a Senator from Indiana; I wanted to serve - THAT ALONE OUGHT TO DEMONSTRATE SOMETHING.

    2). There are certainly two kinds of people in this world; Leaders, and people in positions.

    NOW YOU TELL ME, WHERE DO OUR POLITICIANS FIT? Where does that gangster serving as a SQL fit?

    To lie, is suicide in a Leadership role. How can people trust someone who lies? Being a Leader requires alot, and one of the very important aspects is TRUST between the Leader and his followers.

    Which again, makes them not Leaders, but simply people in positions they dont deserve, and ought to be run out of town on the very simple basis.

    Yes, Integrity is essential. I think I'd rather have a leader who was honest, than one who carried a massive amount of expertise in his field. I live by the 9 Noble Virtues, and a violation is taken quite hard by me.

    I think a limit on power is moot. Restrict all the power, and what good might a leader be? His goodness, comes from HIS ability to demonstrate his desire to NOT ABUSE HIS POWER.
    Should he be accountable, YES.
     

    Bapak2ja

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    Fort Wayne
    Thanks for the interaction. I will reply during my wait time at JAC and ORD. Until then, my friend replied as follows:

    I don't really want to believe that character doesn't matter in leadership. So my mind went to work to figure out how to convince myself that it's not so. Here's where my brain finally landed on: Doesn't the word "leader" imply that there are followers? Did Caesar, Saddam, and the other you mentioned have followers or did they simply have gang-members? If I'm just part of the Gestapo so that you don't kill my family I am not really a follower. I am only "following" out of fear. Getting followers through fear or power does not imply leadership. It implies thuggery. Power (position) gains compliance. Leadership gains enthusiastic cooperation.

    I think we are essentially in agreement. I agree that character is essential for a "good" leader, one that brings success and peace to his/her people, organization or country. However, many who do not have true character succeed in acquiring great power. It is only when they have great power that their lack of character is revealed. When they have the power to force their will on others, then the thuggery begins. Then we see the gutter dwellers revealing their true character. The honorable followers are forced to acquiesce or suffer the consequences. Dietriech Bonhoeffer is a prime example.

    Character is only truly revealed when power is achieved. True character will limit the excesses of power. Leaders without true character will abuse their power when they know they can no longer be forced from power by, or because of, its abuse. Thus, leaders without character can succeed to power. For this reason, I believe that true character is not essential to successful leadership. Untested character can achieve power and then fail the test of character.
     

    Joe Williams

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    Jun 26, 2008
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    Character is not essential for leadership. Hitler and Stalin were very effective leaders, discussion of their character really shouldn't be needed.

    Character is essential for good (meaning "desirable to the goals of maintaining freedom") leadership.

    Edit: Which I now note you've already said LOL.
     

    ATOMonkey

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    Jun 15, 2010
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    Plainfield
    There are leaders, and there are bosses.

    Leaders lead. They inspire others to follow them, to the gates of Hell if necessary. They do this in part through strength of character, in part through charisma, in part through reputation, in part through integrity, among other factors. Nobody wants to follow a scumbag weakling who will stab them in the back if it serves his purpose.

    Bosses dictate policy, and try to "lead" through intimidation. That's not leadership. Contrary to those people's opinions, they are not leaders. They are dictators.

    There's a big difference.

    Exactly the way I feel about the subject.
     
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jun 7, 2010
    2,211
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    (INDY-BRipple)
    Character is not essential for leadership. Hitler and Stalin were very effective leaders, discussion of their character really shouldn't be needed.

    Character is essential for good (meaning "desirable to the goals of maintaining freedom") leadership.

    Edit: Which I now note you've already said LOL.


    lol


    Stalin was ruthless, and his rule is marked in thousands of peoples blood before he obtained office, and there only because the Royal Family was murdered

    Hitler was elected, loved by HIS people; obviously enough that the German Army was able to fill the ranks with French, Finns, Danes, Nords and Svears, not to mention many many many other peoples, other creeds, and even Jews and Muslims supported him.
     
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