PolyCase ammo now shipping

[ncthorn]

PolyCase Ammunition | The Ammo of the Future has Arrived

I was just cruising around online and found that these guys have just begun shipping ammo. As of right now, it looks like they are mainly going for defensive loads in .380 using HP ammo. To me, they are moving in an interesting new direction, but I would love to see them offer budget loadings for plinking and would be really interested to see if they could beat the prices of steel cased ammunition. To me, unless there is a substantial savings, I will stick with brass casings. This could be interesting to watch moving forward though.

 

[AD Marc]

Would be interesting if they pulled it off, but this isn't a new idea. Someone tried polymer cased 223 several years back and it sucked. Cases would come apart in your rifle.

 

[ncthorn]

I do remember that. According to the company, these have been designed with that in mind. I think ultimately we will see more ammunition go this route as it just makes sense. At this point though, it's just a matter of getting it right and proven.

 

[Leo]

I actually know that man in Texas that made the all plastic shotgun shells twenty years ago. They worked pretty well. Anyone remember the Active shells? There was really no cost savings and they had just enough problems with them that he just kind of phased them out and concentrated on other plastic products. New materials technology is always interesting, but I kind of stick with the common stuff.

 

[Broom_jm]

I've got about 200 empty, never fired, Activ 12 gauge hulls. I'm not sure what the impetus is for developing a polymer-cased round. The brass and steel casings work very well, particularly with the tolerances we get in today's machined products. This is a solution, desperately in search of a need.

ETA - In reading through some of the "benefits" of this poly-cased ammo, I came across the following statement: "PolyCase Ammunition’s single-use cases prevent reloading, thereby ensuring only highly reliable, non-reloaded ammunition is used by consumers and public security forces."

Well, THEY might think that is a benefit, but for most folks with a little common sense, it's a HUGE limitation. They sell 90gr XTP loads of 380 for ~$21 for 25 rounds. You can buy the same thing in reloadable brass for right around $18 for 25. I can load 25 of the exact same bullet, in a brass casing that will last for at least 10 firings, for $21 per 100, or 1/4th the price this "advanced" company is charging. I can load for 20 cents/ea and they're charging 80 cents/ea.

I think I'll stick with brass, thank you very much!

 

[Chaz]

I saw this via a friend as well. My thoughts were along Broom_jm's thoughts.
Plus, and I don't know if this has any bearing but, it popped into my mind: Didn't the Gov. try to get brass "recycled" as opposed to "reused" on a large scale, not that long ago? Wouldn't that just drive up the cost, overall? I'm not saying, just asking.

 

[Leo]

Those who want to disarm us really do not like reloading skills and equipment or gunsmithing skills and equipment. If all the ammo is made in one or two places, it is pretty easy to control. If 8 million people can reload in their basements, things are a lot tougher.

 

[Broom_jm]

Those who want to disarm us really do not like reloading skills and equipment or gunsmithing skills and equipment. If all the ammo is made in one or two places, it is pretty easy to control. If 8 million people can reload in their basements, things are a lot tougher.

There's a man who sees things clearly.

 

[Lucky]

ditto that!

 

[Cerberus]

Those who want to disarm us really do not like reloading skills and equipment or gunsmithing skills and equipment. If all the ammo is made in one or two places, it is pretty easy to control. If 8 million people can reload in their basements, things are a lot tougher.

Preach it brother, preach it

 

[cordex]

Would be interesting if they pulled it off, but this isn't a new idea. Someone tried polymer cased 223 several years back and it sucked. Cases would come apart in your rifle.

I was with a friend years ago when a polymer case from PCA came apart in his rifle. .380 would probably be a whole lot easier to handle, although the relative cost of the brass is also probably lower so the cost savings would be less.

I actually know that man in Texas that made the all plastic shotgun shells twenty years ago. They worked pretty well. Anyone remember the Active shells? There was really no cost savings and they had just enough problems with them that he just kind of phased them out and concentrated on other plastic products. New materials technology is always interesting, but I kind of stick with the common stuff.

In 1990 copper was a quarter the price it is now. If costs keep going up, polymer and other cheaper materials will become more and more attractive.

That said, the whole anti-reloading perspective on their website is irritating.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

There's a man who sees things clearly.

Or a guy who sees a conspiracy when what there really is is a free market. Steel isn't reloadable either, are the Russians in on it? Blazer aluminum rounds? You really think this is some move by the anti-gun crowd?

Make brass or steel ammo, you're just another small fish in a really giant pond of established manufacturers.

Come up with something different, like Tupperware cartridges, and you can stand out and maybe make a run of it. Like the Glasier Safety Slug folks. What other ammo would people pay that kind of cash for, especially given the extremely questionable advantages they supposedly offer? No, be different, convince people that that difference matters somehow, make profit.

 

[jve153]

i like the idea. thinking long term. as for the conspiracy thing, you are looking the wrong direction. just like the injection molded ar reciever, this could very well be one of the technological small steps to ELIMINATING gun control. if everyone with minimal knowledge can produce a working firearm and ammunition, what regulation can they really achieve.
short term, i will not be buying any, but will keep an ear out for more information

 

[Farmritch]

When I was an Appleseed instructor I saw this ammo on the line a few times and I never saw it cause any issues, it was accurate and reliable!

Would be interesting if they pulled it off, but this isn't a new idea. Someone tried polymer cased 223 several years back and it sucked. Cases would come apart in your rifle.

 

[opus1776]

Or a guy who sees a conspiracy when what there really is is a free market. Steel isn't reloadable either, are the Russians in on it? Blazer aluminum rounds? You really think this is some move by the anti-gun crowd?

The part that I hi-lighted is not true. From what I have seen, folks over at arfcom have reloaded steel .223 and .45ACP successfully multiple times.....

======================================
"Nothing tastes as good as skinny feels" K. Moss
You can NEVER be too rich or too thin.
Life is not a journey, but a series of unplanned detours...
Perfection: is not a goal---it's a demanded expectation.

 

[worddoer]

I believe there are only 2 reasons that polymer cases would be commercially successful in the long term.

1. The cost of a brass case becomes so high that a polymer case is competitive at today's prices.

2. The cost of a polymer case decreases dramatically compared to today's prices.

Either of those means that you can get ammunition at a far cheaper price with a polymer cased box of ammo versus a brass cased box of ammo.

Either one of those happen, it might survive. But brass and steel cases have been around for over 100 years now and both have proved to be reliable and durable. If there is no cost advantage, then I don't think it will last without some other major and significant advantage...which at the moment I do not see.

 

[Broom_jm]

Very smart insight, Worddoer. I'm sure you are right about cost being a determining factor in whether or not this polymer-cased ammo becomes a viable product.

At the same time, there are three other factors that I feel will play into the potential success, and likely failure:

1) A huge number of case types would need to be manufactured to meet consumer demand.

2) Cases with a great deal higher capacity and pressure would need to be manufactured.

3) I personally believe some sort of government mandate would have to be imposed before this kind of ammo could really succeed in more than a niche market. (Not unlike what is happening with lead-free bullets.)

This company is producing ammo in low volume, low pressure 380 ACP and is "promising" a couple of others. Could they make 357 Magnum or 30/30 or 338 Win Mag ammunition with a polymer case? Probably not. Will they offer it in 225 Winchester, 30/40 Krag or 8mm Rem Mag? Absolutely not, and there is no way they can offer a "basic" case type that can be shaped or trimmed into other rounds. Another serious question is could they offer new, unprimed cases that reloaders could prime, charge and seat bullets into? How do your "crimp" into a polymer case to create the essential start pressure some cartridges require?

If the cost of brass goes much higher, reloading/recycling of brass will become more commonplace. Guys like me, who are already conscious of the cost of shooting, reload ammo for the enjoyment and economic advantages it offers. It may become financially crucial for anyone who wants to shoot to learn the basics of this hobby.

 

[cordex]

1) A huge number of case types would need to be manufactured to meet consumer demand.

Manufacturing a large variety of shapes of small plastic components is hardly beyond the capacity of the plastics industry.

2) Cases with a great deal higher capacity and pressure would need to be manufactured.

There are some calibers for which plastic cases would require a major advancement in materials science before they would be possible. That said, the ability to handle exotic or high-pressure cartridges isn't a requirement for a successful product.

3) I personally believe some sort of government mandate would have to be imposed before this kind of ammo could really succeed in more than a niche market. (Not unlike what is happening with lead-free bullets.)

If a cost savings exists I disagree. The market for cheap ammo is a very large one and any product that can deliver an inexpensive and reliable substitute for brass-cased ammunition will carve a place for itself. If the cost savings isn't there, I would agree that there would have to be some sort of artificial push.

I fear that the push would go the other way, though. I could definitely see the government trying to restrict this kind of ammunition on some piece of ill-conceived Homeland Security legislation.

This company is producing ammo in low volume, low pressure 380 ACP and is "promising" a couple of others. Could they make 357 Magnum or 30/30 or 338 Win Mag ammunition with a polymer case? Probably not. Will they offer it in 225 Winchester, 30/40 Krag or 8mm Rem Mag? Absolutely not, and there is no way they can offer a "basic" case type that can be shaped or trimmed into other rounds.

Just because the technology or demand does not currently exist to produce every possible cartridge or load doesn't mean that there is not a place for this kind of thing. So what if they don't offer it in 225 Winchester? I don't think anyone is suggesting that plastic can or should replace brass in every possible application. You can't get (commercially in the US, anyway) steel case 225 Winchester or 338 win mag yet, but that doesn't mean the technology of steel cased ammunition isn't marketable.

If even a few common, low pressure cartridges could be reliably made using this technology with a cost savings to the customer, it could be a very commercially viable product.

As I said in my earlier post, I've seen failures in previous incarnations of plastic case technologies and am not a cheerleader of any particular product, but if the cost savings is there then you will eventually see these all over gun store shelves - and probably produced by the major manufacturers.

 

[PolyCas]

Thank you all for your feedback, both positive and negative on our new product. As readers of INGunOwners we would like to offer you a discount code for 10% off any order on PolyCase Ammunition Online Store with the code INGUNOWNERS. We also have just implemented a promotion for FREE shipping on 50 Round boxes of our .380 XTP ammo.

We at PolyCase Ammunition are not suggesting that our ammunition is the end all, cure all for ammunition. Each shooter will have to determine how they like the feel of our ammunition in their weapons and if polymer is right for them.

 

[Chaz]

Hey, That is cool of you! That's a good way to get the word out. I hope it works out!!
I'd consider trying it........ just to find out for myself but, I am into reloading so I wouldn't buy much.
Good luck!!