Poor IR discipline with NVG

[mikefraz]

I hear this phrase a decent amount. That someone has poor IR discipline with the IR light or laser. I realize what they mean, but I got to thinking, is it really that important? My questions are:
-How many civilians in the US actually own decent night vision? Is there an estimate out there?
-In a SHTF scenario, what are the honest odds of someone else in your area having NVG's to even see your IR lights/lasers?

I'm not doubting that it's important in a war zone, but is it really important in Randomville, Indiana?
What's your opinion, NVG owning INGO members?

 

[1911ly]

I am not totally sure of what you mean , but I think you mean using the IR light when you don't need to? I can see where it could be an issue if you were trying to be stealth.

I have some Gen 1, 2, and 3 equipment. I have thought about my IR "foot print". You would be in effect holding a torch! The Ir light doesn't really seem to be needed outside. Only seems to be useful to maybe 50-100 yards around here. But I have a lot of light pollution. I'd love to get far away from the man made light and really see what it can to.

 

[JollyMon]

Just because it is an "ir" light does not mean in doesn't have a visible signature. Ever look at an ir illuninator (such as on a security camera) and see the red signature. Those exist on many types of ir devices. I know I have seen them from many lights from wml to dbals. Guess what you aren't the only person that could see them and when your eyes are straining any light those stick out.


You willing to take the risk? Practice good light discipline whether visible or ir.

edit: I just checked my surefire scout m600v, I can see the red hue on the ir setting during daylight hours quite easily, just imagine that at night. Using nvg doesn't make you a stealth ninja, you still have to follow low light principles.

 

[flatlander]

Even with el cheapo wally world nv, if you use the ir on yours, it would be a great target indicator for my el cheapos.
Food for thought. Anybody can afford $200 for that use even if it only gains you a 100' of vision.


Bob

 

[mikefraz]

That's true. Thanks for the food for thought guys.

 

[mammynun]

Some consumer video cameras (I have a Sony with "Nightshot" capability) do a fine job of picking up IR lasers and LED lights.

 

[actaeon277]

Some consumer video cameras (I have a Sony with "Nightshot" capability) do a fine job of picking up IR lasers and LED lights.

So do a lot of cell phones.

 

[Leadeye]

I can't imagine any SHTF raiders stumbling around in pitch black trying to attack an unknown target.

 

[JollyMon]

I can't imagine any SHTF raiders stumbling around in pitch black trying to attack an unknown target.

no crime as ever been committed at night.

 

[MohawkSlim]

If you're asking this question it's probably a good idea for you to start being aware of it and practicing good habits in the event you ever need to watch your IR discipline.

You'd be amazed how easy it is to spot light and IR light at night when you're looking for it. You'd be equally amazed how careless people are when they're not trying to be disciplined. If there's ever a SHTF scenario owning the night will put you leaps and bounds ahead of the others. Why not get good at it now?

 

[IndianaResident]

I'd add that quite aside from the external threat, If you have a partner or a team an IR laser or IR flood can be a blue falcon move.

PVS-14's will work in near pitch black if you dial up the gain, including inside buildings. When one guy throws on his flood the rest of the crew, who dialed up their gain, are suddenly blinded, especially if you're actively clearing and exiting rooms. It also created "darker" patches in the same way a very bright flashlight will if someone else is swinging it about where you aren't looking.

Between that and the excess battery drain, I'd rather train my team to default to gain adjustment, alternate to IR chemlights, and only go to IR flood when necessary and static inside. Same concept with regard to lasers. Take your restrictor plates off if you have them, but use the low settings unless shooting long distance.

 

[cop car]

Well I mean pvs14s are auto gain.. So they would be bright for a split second. Then compensate. And if you go into a building you'd want to be using ir illumination anyways imo. But yes. You should treat it the same as visible light. Because it is visible. Maybe not do everyone, but it might be to someone who you don't want to see it.


On this topic you can also use ir lasers/illuminators as markets for friendlies. Peq15s come with several Lazer designator lenses. Triangles, squares, circles and some other shapes. That way you can immediately know "hey that's my other squad with their square lasers".

 

[IndianaResident]

You must be way higher speed than us. PVS-14's are definitely manual gain, right on the front by the lense?

 

[JollyMon]

I'm sure he meant auto gated.... For those unintentended bright lights

 

[mikefraz]

So is there a published number anywhere that estimates how many NVG's have been sold to civilians?

 

[cosermann]

In addition to my Cannon camera, and phone/tablet camera, my home surveillance cams will also pickup IR. There's all kinds of IR detection hardware out there that doesn't fit the NVG paradigm, but could/would be pressed into service as such if the need were dire.

 

[cop car]

I'm sure he meant auto gated.... For those unintentended bright lights

Yes. You are correct. I did mean gated.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

I can't imagine any SHTF raiders stumbling around in pitch black trying to attack an unknown target.

Remember the snatch and grab raid on the doctor in CT? They were wearing NV.