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  • Kagnew

    Master
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    Dec 30, 2009
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    After umpteen times spouting off about his "red line" which Syria would be crossing if they used chemical weapons, he now decides that the red line was drawn "by the world". Right, Bam-Bam. That's why it's the UN Security Council taking a vote on whether or not to authorize action. Wrong! (Have you had Joe writing your press releases? :rolleyes: )
     

    copperhead-1911

    Shooter
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    3   0   0
    May 19, 2013
    611
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    New Castle
    That disgrace is going to get us in another war to protect people that hate us. This is pathetic and this boy ( ill call him a man when he acts like one) is the least respected president ever by our military.
     

    jrogers

    Why not pass the time with a game of solitaire?
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    Apr 3, 2008
    1,239
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    Central IN
    After umpteen times spouting off about his "red line" which Syria would be crossing if they used chemical weapons, he now decides that the red line was drawn "by the world". Right, Bam-Bam. That's why it's the UN Security Council taking a vote on whether or not to authorize action. Wrong! (Have you had Joe writing your press releases? :rolleyes: )

    If foreign policy is so simple by all means let us know what your approach would be.

    Which is not to say that the Administration has deftly handled a complex situation, but that doesn't legitimize standing on the sidelines and heckling.


    That disgrace is going to get us in another war to protect people that hate us. This is pathetic and this boy ( ill call him a man when he acts like one) is the least respected president ever by our military.

    It's awfully reductionist to claim that Syrians in general can be described as "people that hate us." (sic) Given that he actually did plunge the USA into a protracted war in Iraq does GWB qualify as a man or a boy by your metric, and what level of military respect do you believe he deserves? Also, what qualifies you to claim that BHO is "the least respected president ever by our military?"
     

    Kutnupe14

    Troll Emeritus
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    Jan 13, 2011
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    That disgrace is going to get us in another war to protect people that hate us. This is pathetic and this boy ( ill call him a man when he acts like one) is the least respected president ever by our military.

    Lincoln and LBJ would give him a run for his money.
     

    Bummer

    Expert
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    Nov 5, 2010
    1,202
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    West side of Indy
    If foreign policy is so simple by all means let us know what your approach would be.

    Which is not to say that the Administration has deftly handled a complex situation, but that doesn't legitimize standing on the sidelines and heckling.

    The Syrian situation is a terrible tragedy. Terrible tragedies happen all the time. Life sucks and then you die, everyone should make the most of it as they can.

    Syria is a sovereign nation. We should mind our own business. Heckle? Perhaps not. Stand on the sidelines? Absolutely. Righteous indignation does not legitimize meddling.
     
    Rating - 100%
    15   0   0
    Aug 14, 2009
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    Salem
    If foreign policy is so simple by all means let us know what your approach would be.

    Which is not to say that the Administration has deftly handled a complex situation, but that doesn't legitimize standing on the sidelines and heckling.




    It's awfully reductionist to claim that Syrians in general can be described as "people that hate us." (sic) Given that he actually did plunge the USA into a protracted war in Iraq does GWB qualify as a man or a boy by your metric, and what level of military respect do you believe he deserves? Also, what qualifies you to claim that BHO is "the least respected president ever by our military?"

    GWB - Smacked back on Afghanistan - which was arguably necessary. Then,, given false information to at least some degree - he got us into Iraq. To the degree that Iraq was hubris on our part - I pass around the condemnation for Bush. So he gets a mixed grade there. And we will never know the full truth. Syria is a situation where we don't have a good way out. Nobody there is our friend - the best we have are a few friends of convenience. The problem is that BHO has spent the last few years telling half the country that we're ignorant aholes and everything that we stand for is worthless. He has DIVIDED instead of UNITING. And now that chicken comes home to roost. If he had united the country, he could ha taken COVERT action (not necessarily OVERT military strikes) and strengthened who he chose - just by getting them arms etc. IF he felt that that was even appropriate. As it stands by engaging in the politics of division, he doesn't have a country standing with him. As with LBJ - BHO would sell his mother for power. This is all about penis measuring... And there he stands, limp before the world.
     
    Rating - 100%
    15   0   0
    Aug 14, 2009
    3,816
    63
    Salem
    The Syrian situation is a terrible tragedy. Terrible tragedies happen all the time. Life sucks and then you die, everyone should make the most of it as they can.

    Syria is a sovereign nation. We should mind our own business. Heckle? Perhaps not. Stand on the sidelines? Absolutely. Righteous indignation does not legitimize meddling.

    Agree that we should mind our own business. Any influencing (and there is always SOME) should be of the most quiet variety. BHO gets an F for his handling of this.
     

    jrogers

    Why not pass the time with a game of solitaire?
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    Apr 3, 2008
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    Central IN
    GWB - Smacked back on Afghanistan - which was arguably necessary. Then,, given false information to at least some degree - he got us into Iraq. To the degree that Iraq was hubris on our part - I pass around the condemnation for Bush. So he gets a mixed grade there. And we will never know the full truth.

    So you subscribe to the theory that pure and innocent GWB was lied to by shadowy figures and acted in good faith on said lies, thereby relieving him of responsibility for what everyone with half a brain expected to happen in Iraq?

    Syria is a situation where we don't have a good way out. Nobody there is our friend - the best we have are a few friends of convenience. The problem is that BHO has spent the last few years telling half the country that we're ignorant aholes and everything that we stand for is worthless. He has DIVIDED instead of UNITING. And now that chicken comes home to roost. If he had united the country, he could ha taken COVERT action (not necessarily OVERT military strikes) and strengthened who he chose - just by getting them arms etc. IF he felt that that was even appropriate. As it stands by engaging in the politics of division, he doesn't have a country standing with him. As with LBJ - BHO would sell his mother for power.

    You're entirely correct that there is no good answer in Syria. I'm not sure where you get the idea that "BHO has spent the last few years telling half the country that we're ignorant aholes and everything that we stand for is worthless." Read Breitbart and InfoWars much? The Republicans are just as culpable as the Democrats with respect to any political division if not more so. American politics has become a game of screeching that the other guy is just terrible and fighting his policies with tooth and nail at every opportunity. The strategies employed in Congress over the course of this Administration would result in pyrrhic victories at best if the American people didn't have a pathologically brief attention span and willful ignorance of reality. Luckily for those in power on both nominal sides we greedily gobble our Big Macs while watching Honey Boo Boo and voting for American Idol, pausing only briefly to gather a few skewed soundbites from whatever "news" channel or website is willing to pander to our prejudices and exploit wedge issues to further the culture war that generates so much capital, both political and pecuniary.

    But yeah, BHO is the worst, unlike our guys. Go, Team! :rolleyes:
     

    spirit390

    Marksman
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    4   0   0
    Feb 2, 2009
    295
    18
    Watching bho is watching amatur hour at it's finest. He is such a petulant little boy it would almost be funny to watch if there was not so dire of consequences.
     

    ViperJock

    Master
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    10   0   0
    Feb 28, 2011
    3,811
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    Fort Wayne-ish
    You're entirely correct that there is no good answer in Syria. I'm not sure where you get the idea that "BHO has spent the last few years telling half the country that we're ignorant aholes and everything that we stand for is worthless." Read Breitbart and InfoWars much? The Republicans are just as culpable as the Democrats with respect to any political division if not more so. American politics has become a game of screeching that the other guy is just terrible and fighting his policies with tooth and nail at every opportunity. The strategies employed in Congress over the course of this Administration would result in pyrrhic victories at best if the American people didn't have a pathologically brief attention span and willful ignorance of reality. Luckily for those in power on both nominal sides we greedily gobble our Big Macs while watching Honey Boo Boo and voting for American Idol, pausing only briefly to gather a few skewed soundbites from whatever "news" channel or website is willing to pander to our prejudices and exploit wedge issues to further the culture war that generates so much capital, both political and pecuniary.

    But yeah, BHO is the worst, unlike our guys. Go, Team! :rolleyes:

    Read anything much? You will be hard pressed to find anyone on INGO giving ANYONE a free pass including the (R) party. Obama has done nothing in the name ofour country except apologize for us, embarrass us, and defame us. This guy IS terrible and fighting his policies isn't just politics (no doubt thereis a ton of that) but it's also just good sense.
     
    Rating - 100%
    15   0   0
    Aug 14, 2009
    3,816
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    Salem
    So you subscribe to the theory that pure and innocent GWB was lied to by shadowy figures and acted in good faith on said lies, thereby relieving him of responsibility for what everyone with half a brain expected to happen in Iraq?
    No - I don't - please read my post again - I said that he is partially culpable. To the degree he was lied to - I don't hold him at fault. To the degree that he did it out of hubris I condemn the action. NOTE that I said that "we will never know" what percentage was which.
    You're entirely correct that there is no good answer in Syria. I'm not sure where you get the idea that "BHO has spent the last few years telling half the country that we're ignorant aholes and everything that we stand for is worthless." Read Breitbart and InfoWars much?
    I did not hear Reagan use the term "bitter - clinging to their guns and religion". He reached out to people that he disagreed with. I don't recall hearing such derision from Bush I either. For all of his faults, I don't recall hearing such divisive rhetoric from GWB either. And to give credit where it's due - Clinton started out divisive - but had the good sense to extend the olive branch. And he had the political capital he needed when he needed it. Obama has shown no such inclination. If you repeatedly deride people and don't work with them, and screw them over at every turn - sooner or later they get wise, pick up their marbles and go home. As for Breitbart and Infowars, no, I don't read them (any more than I watch PMSNBC or any other right or left slanted crap). THEY are not the President. THEY don't determine policy. HE does. The other Presidents, both D and R, seem to have remembered to not crap in their nest. Obama - unlike the others has been incessantly flinging manure like a chimpanzee with a mental disorder.
     

    Blackhawk2001

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
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    3   0   0
    Jun 20, 2010
    8,199
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    NW Indianapolis
    If foreign policy is so simple by all means let us know what your approach would be.

    Which is not to say that the Administration has deftly handled a complex situation, but that doesn't legitimize standing on the sidelines and heckling.




    It's awfully reductionist to claim that Syrians in general can be described as "people that hate us." (sic) Given that he actually did plunge the USA into a protracted war in Iraq does GWB qualify as a man or a boy by your metric, and what level of military respect do you believe he deserves? Also, what qualifies you to claim that BHO is "the least respected president ever by our military?"

    How about let's say that the Syrian government has been sponsoring terrorists all over the Middle East and elsewhere, some of whom have been responsible for American deaths, while their opponents, largely supporters of the Muslim Brotherhood, a fascist movement with a religious overlay, are ALSO responsible for killing US personnel. Both have exhibited hatred of the West in general and the US in particular.

    Although we don't want to allow the spread of WMD, that cat is out of the box already; nothing we can reasonably be expected to do in Syria is going to gain anything for us in terms of arms reduction, WMD anti-proliferation, OR international prestige. There isn't anything "complicated" about this situation; the Syrians are perfectly willing to use chemical weapons on each other and the rest of the world is unwilling (China, Russia, Iran) or unable (everybody else, apparently, since the UN isn't calling for any action at this point) to cause them to stop what they are doing. The ONLY reason for getting involved is so that President Obama can attempt to make people believe that he's not REALLY that stupid - a vain attempt that will cost Americans more lives and treasure and accomplish not even the base goal the President wants.
     

    Kagnew

    Master
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    0   0   0
    Dec 30, 2009
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    Columbus
    we greedily gobble our Big Macs while watching Honey Boo Boo and voting for American Idol, pausing only briefly to gather a few skewed soundbites from whatever "news" channel or website is willing to pander to our prejudices and exploit wedge issues to further the culture war that generates so much capital, both political and pecuniary.

    I do agree with your "Location". :chillout:
     

    Kagnew

    Master
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    0   0   0
    Dec 30, 2009
    2,618
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    Columbus
    Read anything much? You will be hard pressed to find anyone on INGO giving ANYONE a free pass including the (R) party. Obama has done nothing in the name ofour country except apologize for us, embarrass us, and defame us. This guy IS terrible and fighting his policies isn't just politics (no doubt thereis a ton of that) but it's also just good sense.

    Racist!
     

    jrogers

    Why not pass the time with a game of solitaire?
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    0   0   0
    Apr 3, 2008
    1,239
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    Central IN
    How about let's say that the Syrian government has been sponsoring terrorists all over the Middle East and elsewhere, some of whom have been responsible for American deaths, while their opponents, largely supporters of the Muslim Brotherhood, a fascist movement with a religious overlay, are ALSO responsible for killing US personnel. Both have exhibited hatred of the West in general and the US in particular.

    Although we don't want to allow the spread of WMD, that cat is out of the box already; nothing we can reasonably be expected to do in Syria is going to gain anything for us in terms of arms reduction, WMD anti-proliferation, OR international prestige. There isn't anything "complicated" about this situation; the Syrians are perfectly willing to use chemical weapons on each other and the rest of the world is unwilling (China, Russia, Iran) or unable (everybody else, apparently, since the UN isn't calling for any action at this point) to cause them to stop what they are doing. The ONLY reason for getting involved is so that President Obama can attempt to make people believe that he's not REALLY that stupid - a vain attempt that will cost Americans more lives and treasure and accomplish not even the base goal the President wants.

    Neither the government of Syria nor the Muslim Brotherhood are aligned wtih US interests. You've conveniently omitted the remainder of that state's population.

    No one seriously believes that arms reduction or anti-proliferation would be accomplished by intervention in Syria, so I'm not sure why you brought that up unless my mention of Iraq was too much a distraction. If you don't believe that there is anything complicated about the situation in Syria then I doubt you have actually been paying attention. Your refusal to appreciate that Syria is not a homogenous mass of flag burning anti-American sentiment has blinded you to the fact that the issue is not that "Syrians are perfectly willing to use chemical weapons on each other," it's that al-Assad is perfectly willing to slaughter noncombatants en masse with chemical weapons.


    Read anything much? You will be hard pressed to find anyone on INGO giving ANYONE a free pass including the (R) party. Obama has done nothing in the name ofour country except apologize for us, embarrass us, and defame us. This guy IS terrible and fighting his policies isn't just politics (no doubt thereis a ton of that) but it's also just good sense.

    I read a great deal, why do you ask? As for free passes, this place is just as guilty of political tribalism as, say, DemocraticUnderground. That you follow your claim of institutional political neutrality with such a hyperbolic, eminently falsifiable claim as that gives further weight to my argument, as does your blatant ad hominem. I don't believe that our CiC always makes the right decisions, but opposing his policies simply because the "guy IS terrible" is precisely what I was originally criticizing.


    And here we have further examples of soundbite politics:
    Someone else built it for you.
    bitter - clinging to their guns and religion

    These both make sense in context unless the listener is nonfluent in English or suffers from an inability to understand nuance. The former was unfortunately phrased, but the man's meaning was clear to those who listened. Yet through constant out of context repetition on right wing propaganda sites and channels they were twisted into something unrecognizable in the service of furthering the synthetic Culture War.


    I do agree with your "Location". :chillout:

    So you believe that that criticizing willful ignorance and complacency is essentially leftist? Yet you must not be a leftist given this negative rep you left on the post in question:

    Bq3PbI3.jpg


    So should we conclude that you embrace willful ignorance and complacency? I'm genuinely mystified by your position.
     
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