PR: Reports: Toddler slips from grandfather's arms on cruise ship, falls 150'

[WebSnyper]

Doesn't really seem like enough but what do you do? The family will live with this forever. Glad I'm not in his shoes.

Or in his hands...

on the serious side, agreed.

 

[churchmouse]

Doesn't really seem like enough but what do you do? The family will live with this forever. Glad I'm not in his shoes.

I can not even begin to imagine where my mind would be if I allowed anything, anything at all let alone death to happen to one of my precious G-daughters.

 

[Nazgul]

Grandson #2 is my mini me. Loves shooting, can run an AR for 200 rounds faster than you think, he is 10. Been very strict for safety rules but cannot imagine him being hurt by my hands accidentally. Not sure I would survive.

Don

 

[BE Mike]

The perpetrator at least came clean after all that time trying to point blame at the cruise line. No time served in the pen, but he has the rest of his life with what he did. He's also a convicted felon, now. I hope the law suit by the family is dismissed.

 

[WebSnyper]

The perpetrator at least came clean after all that time trying to point blame at the cruise line. No time served in the pen, but he has the rest of his life with what he did. He's also a convicted felon, now. I hope the law suit by the family is dismissed.

"This decision was an incredibly difficult one for Sam and the family, but because the plea agreement includes no jail time and no admission of facts, it was decided the plea deal is in the best interests of the family so that they can close this horrible chapter and turn their focus to mourning Chloe and fighting for cruise passenger safety," he said."

Not so sure about the coming clean -- no admission of facts. I presume that is to keep the civil cases viable.
I understand that this is done for legal purposes, etc, but I don't think I'd say came clean.

It's a tragedy all around.

 

[BE Mike]

"This decision was an incredibly difficult one for Sam and the family, but because the plea agreement includes no jail time and no admission of facts, it was decided the plea deal is in the best interests of the family so that they can close this horrible chapter and turn their focus to mourning Chloe and fighting for cruise passenger safety," he said."

Not so sure about the coming clean -- no admission of facts. I presume that is to keep the civil cases viable.
I understand that this is done for legal purposes, etc, but I don't think I'd say came clean.

It's a tragedy all around.

It is a tragedy and I have no personal connection with any parties. There is risk in everything we do. Anyone who knows about the Titanic knows that traveling on ships has its risks. People even get sick on cruise ships and die. The question is, "Did the ship open window present an attractive nuisance?" I don't see it that way. I don't follow how the grandfather can plead guilty to a crime involving the child's death and that not be considered an admission of wrongdoing. Greedy lawyers, who advertise on tv several times a day, are looking for that big case so they can buy a big ranch in Texas, or a private island...There is nothing wrong with trying to improve cruise ship safety, but I'm not buying the implication that a law suit is going to really change things. There are other and better ways to go about it.

 

[JettaKnight]

It is a tragedy and I have no personal connection with any parties. There is risk in everything we do. Anyone who knows about the Titanic knows that traveling on ships has its risks. People even get sick on cruise ships and die. The question is, "Did the ship open window present an attractive nuisance?" I don't see it that way. I don't follow how the grandfather can plead guilty to a crime involving the child's death and that not be considered an admission of wrongdoing. Greedy lawyers, who advertise on tv several times a day, are looking for that big case so they can buy a big ranch in Texas, or a private island...There is nothing wrong with trying to improve cruise ship safety, but I'm not buying the implication that a law suit is going to really change things. There are other and better ways to go about it.

If OJ Simpson taught me anything, it's that criminal and civil cases can have opposing outcomes.

 

[JTScribe]

This story makes me sick to my stomach. I don't know how I'd go on if something happened to my kids.

 

[femurphy77]

If OJ Simpson taught me anything, it's that criminal and civil cases can have opposing outcomes.

Are you trying to say OJ was guilty?

 

[WebSnyper]

It is a tragedy and I have no personal connection with any parties. There is risk in everything we do. Anyone who knows about the Titanic knows that traveling on ships has its risks. People even get sick on cruise ships and die. The question is, "Did the ship open window present an attractive nuisance?" I don't see it that way. I don't follow how the grandfather can plead guilty to a crime involving the child's death and that not be considered an admission of wrongdoing. Greedy lawyers, who advertise on tv several times a day, are looking for that big case so they can buy a big ranch in Texas, or a private island...There is nothing wrong with trying to improve cruise ship safety, but I'm not buying the implication that a law suit is going to really change things. There are other and better ways to go about it.

The civil lawsuit would be all about money IMO. Hence my reasoning for saying he is not "coming clean". He took the deal, didn't admit anything and life goes on for him (at least physically) with no time served, etc, and yet the civil lawsuits likely continue to see what $ someone can get.

 

[WebSnyper]

This story makes me sick to my stomach. I don't know how I'd go on if something happened to my kids.

And how tough would it be to have it be a family member who caused it, in what I would consider a negligent manner?

 

[JettaKnight]

And how tough would it be to have it be a family member who caused it, in what I would consider a negligent manner?

I can't even begin to imagine what Thanksgiving is like.

 

[WebSnyper]

I can't even begin to imagine what Thanksgiving is like.

I almost typed, I wouldn't be sitting around a Thanksgiving table with someone.

 

[HoughMade]

If OJ Simpson taught me anything, it's that criminal and civil cases can have opposing outcomes.

If a person is found guilty of a crime, that can be used to establish liability is a civil suit for the same actions. However, as you learned, a "not guilty" verdict means only that there was not proof beyond a reasonable doubt. The standard of proof in a civil action is (usually) by a preponderance of the evidence. Put another way, a person can be more than 50% sure of something, but still not 90% convinced.

Of course, the real fun is when there are state and federal laws that cover the same actions- there, we can have 2 criminal prosecutions with completely different outcomes, both legally valid....but it is exceedingly rare.

Finally, as to this incident- the fact that the grandfather was a cause of the death does not mean the cruise line was not also a cause. Like most things in life, there can be multiple causes....I mean, in this case I don't think the cruise line has any liability, but theoretically even an admission by the grandfather would not end the civil suit.

 

[Alamo]

Stuff happened as late as yesterday in the civil suit, but I am not going to sign up for PACER just to see what it was:
Wiegand et al v. Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd. (1:19-cv-25100), Florida Southern District Court (pacermonitor.com)

 

[SumtnFancy]

Finally, as to this incident- the fact that the grandfather was a cause of the death does not mean the cruise line was not also a cause. Like most things in life, there can be multiple causes....I mean, in this case I don't think the cruise line has any liability, but theoretically even an admission by the grandfather would not end the civil suit.

This is where I have a problem with the legal double-speak. Wellllll, technicallllly..... he was at fault but there is still a chance for some money. What if that idiot held that girl out over the balcony of their cabin? Should there not be balconies or operable windows on a cruise ship? And what harm could that potentially cause passengers? The sliding windows on the front of the ships are incredibly enjoyable when you are relaxing up front. Why should that be taken away because someone else messed up? You could slip on the pool deck, kids drown in pools, people drown or die on excursions, the SHIPS HAVE MORGUES. People die. Royal Caribbean didnt lift your child up to an open window and drop her down 150' onto a concrete dock. You can't idiot-proof life and cases like this are only emboldening the snakes. Probably the same attorney helping to sue gorilla glue for that lovely lady gluing her hair.

 

[nra4ever]

Well the money grab has come to an end for now. A Judge has rule the cruise ship is not at fault.

Royal Caribbean not responsible for Indiana toddler's death, judge rules

A federal judge said Salvatore Anello is solely responsible for 18-month-old Chloe Wiegand's death.

www.wthr.com

 

[femurphy77]

Well the money grab has come to an end for now. A Judge has rule the cruise she is not at fault.

Royal Caribbean not responsible for Indiana toddler's death, judge rules

A federal judge said Salvatore Anello is solely responsible for 18-month-old Chloe Wiegand's death.

www.wthr.com

As long as someone smells cash this won't end. I'm guessing another 5-10 years before this goes away.

 

[gungirl65]

I have a hard time believing there weren't any signs nearby warning not to reach anything outside the window.

When I took a Carnival cruise to the Caribbean a couple of years ago there were warning signs everywhere to help prevent those kinds of things from happening.

I also think we were warned about falling risks from railings, balconies and windows in the initial group meeting with the cruise line.

However I think my cruise was a couple of months after that fatal cruise.