Preemption Violation?

[Kirk Freeman]

Or I guess I could just OC through the park and see what happens.

Or, you could write a letter to the City Attorney and advise that if the sign is not removed you would sue.

It's been 9 months, has this been corrected yet?

 

[chipbennett]

Indiana Code 2019 - Indiana General Assembly, 2020 Session

But note:

The devil is in the details. "Intentional display of a firearm", IMHO, would not include either concealed or open carry - certainly not the former, though the latter could be subject to debate. To me, "intentional display" is more akin to brandishing.

 

[GIJEW]

legalese aside, these signs are for intimidating people into surrendering one of their civil rights, because the offending officials know that most people won't know the law--there are police officers and politicians who don't know.

I'm pretty certain that using an implied threat of force to intimidate people and control them is illegal and probably a felony. If there were criminal penalties for abusing power, this stuff would stop. Civil penalties aren't a practical deterrent since pols are barely held accountable for not being fiscally responsible. If they have to periodically throw away tax payer's money for getting sued, it's just the cost of advancing their ideology and agenda

 

[HoughMade]

The devil is in the details. "Intentional display of a firearm", IMHO, would not include either concealed or open carry - certainly not the former, though the latter could be subject to debate. To me, "intentional display" is more akin to brandishing.

Brandishing would be, that doesn't mean OC isn't.

Is your firearm in view of the public? Did you intentionally wear it is such as way as to be in view of the public?

I don't know. Arguments can be made.

 

[chipbennett]

Brandishing would be, that doesn't mean OC isn't.

Is your firearm in view of the public? Did you intentionally wear it is such as way as to be in view of the public?

I don't know. Arguments can be made.

Oh, I agree, which is why I said open carry could be subject to debate. How does one prove intent of the carrier? (In my experience, allegations of carrying openly for the purpose of "showing off" - or similar reasons - is typically little more than psychological projection of the one making the allegation.)

 

[HoughMade]

Oh, I agree, which is why I said open carry could be subject to debate. How does one prove intent of the carrier? (In my experience, allegations of carrying openly for the purpose of "showing off" - or similar reasons - is typically little more than psychological projection of the one making the allegation.)

Well, "intentionally" is pretty simple. Did someone drug your coffee and strap the holster and gun on you without you knowledge or threaten you with harm if you didn't open carry? Far fetched, sure, but if a guy puts on a gun that is clearly seen in the open of his own volition then that would be enough to show intentional display.

Intent is simply that you voluntarily did an act. I guess one can argue that simply carrying a gun out in the open for all to see isn't "displaying" it, but... There is no requirement to prove ill intent or nefarious reason necessary. Did you decide to wear it out in the open where it was clear that it would be seen?

Now, I think they have a problem proving "intentionally" if a person is just really bad at concealing and someone sees it.

Anyhoo, it all seems like a hassle to me. The sign doesn't do anything but make people who would never break the law even more upset.

Local politics- even more petty and possibly more power hungry that higher levels.

 

[rsklar]

Or, you could write a letter to the City Attorney and advise that if the sign is not removed you would sue.

It's been 9 months, has this been corrected yet?

Sent a letter to both the Town Attorney, Town Manager and the Town Marshal and none have replied. The Entire Town Council was also copied on the email. There is no "Ordinance" regarding this sign or the restriction, just the sign in a municipal building.

My main concern is that if there is no enforcement, can I still sue for the removal of the sign? Could they argue that I am not an aggrieved person because there was no enforcement action.

 

[Principal Skinr]

Sent a letter to both the Town Attorney, Town Manager and the Town Marshal and none have replied. The Entire Town Council was also copied on the email. There is no "Ordinance" regarding this sign or the restriction, just the sign in a municipal building.

My main concern is that if there is no enforcement, can I still sue for the removal of the sign? Could they argue that I am not an aggrieved person because there was no enforcement action.

What if someone saw the sign, left her/his firearm in the car, and then was subsequently assaulted and injured? That sounds like a scenario where it could become pretty costly for the town government.

 

[chipbennett]

Well, "intentionally" is pretty simple. Did someone drug your coffee and strap the holster and gun on you without you knowledge or threaten you with harm if you didn't open carry? Far fetched, sure, but if a guy puts on a gun that is clearly seen in the open of his own volition then that would be enough to show intentional display.

Intent is simply that you voluntarily did an act. I guess one can argue that simply carrying a gun out in the open for all to see isn't "displaying" it, but... There is no requirement to prove ill intent or nefarious reason necessary. Did you decide to wear it out in the open where it was clear that it would be seen?

Now, I think they have a problem proving "intentionally" if a person is just really bad at concealing and someone sees it.

Anyhoo, it all seems like a hassle to me. The sign doesn't do anything but make people who would never break the law even more upset.

Local politics- even more petty and possibly more power hungry that higher levels.

Given the number of people who can testify that they carry openly on a regular basis and are rarely, if ever, "seen", I don't think it is a given that mere open carry of a firearm proves intent for said firearm to be "displayed".