Progressive press?

[42253]

A 550 is manual index. I run my rifle rounds through one at a time, inspecting each step. Pistol rounds get cranked out and I can pull one from any stage I choose for inspection.

Good for you...
" I like to make sure of what I am doing."
^^^
And THAT'S Exactly what you get with Dillon!
I have had a Dillon RL550 for over 40 years + still going STRONG.
Dillon tools are mostly MACHINED parts, set screws, and EXACT fitting parts==Lee not so much.

If a person likes to screw with bead chains-plastic -and loose fitting parts than Lee is for you...Bill.

Don't get me wrong I am not saying anything bad about Dillon. I learned how to reload on a 1050. It was great. I got some Lee equipment and l learned how to work with it. I did some tweaking and changes and understood how to run it. Then I got some more presses. I have one for each pistol caliber I shoot, one for 223 and Classic turret press for big rifles. I enjoy reloading as much as I do to shoot, they go hand and hand. Like I said it works for me. Find what works for you and use it. If I see any Dillon or Hornady equipment cheap I will buy it. There is always room in my gun room for more.

 

[STFU]

Which is Better? What’s best?

I wrote this us a couple years back so the prices may not be accurate. And, I understand that Dillon now has a updated some of their presses. In spite of that, I still stand by my talking points.

This question usually ignites a firestorm of of "Blue verses Red verses etc." What you are not going to find is very many people that have actually loaded on BOTH DILLON AND HORNADY. I have loaded on the Dillon SDB, 550, 650, 1050 and the Hornady LNL.
I currently own a Hornady LNL, Dillon SDB, several RCBS single stage presses and, Ponsness Warren & 800+, 375 Du-o-matic and, Hornady 366 shotshell presses.

Here is my perspective: (it's neither right, or wrong, JUST MY OPINION. Opinions are like feet, most everyone has a couple and sometimes they stink. LOL!!)

Consider the Hornady Lock and Load Progressive. It’s cheaper than the Dillon and has several features that, IMHO are better than Dillon.

Dillon Precision has been on the market since late 1970’s or early 1980 and have set the standard for outstanding customer service. Hornady started business in 1949 producing bullets. In 1971 they started producing reloading equipment. Dillon’s unlimited lifetime warranty is well known. As a result of customer service, Dillon users are very dedicated to their blue presses. Other manufacturers have since copied Dillon’s wonderful customer service. Speaking from experience, Hornady’s customer service is equal to Dillon.

Dillon presses are EXCEPTIONAL and do an exceptional job reloading. The competition to the Dillon is the Hornady Lock and Load Auto Progressive. Because most of the Dillon users are so satisfied, when you ask the question “Which is better?”, you get swamped with comments like, "The Hornady LNL is Junk!" If you asked if they have ever loaded on the LNL and 99.9% said no. When I did find someone that had experience with both presses, most liked the LNL and many had sold their Dillon's and bought the LNL. However, there have been those that sold their red presses and bought blue. I can also unequivocally state, based on my experience, that HORNADY has equal customer service. You just have to decide what you like best. Some times it’s just the color, red or blue!!

IMHO the Dillon has one major shortcoming and, most Dillon owners will agree if they are honest. The Dillon powder measure is sorely lacking in ease of use and adjustability. It is sliding bar type measure. It meters ball type powder well but, flake type powder less so. Extruded stick type powder is troublesome and not all that accurate. To be fair, extruded powder is difficult in all powder measures, irregardless of design. Be advised that flake powder has been known to “leak” around the Dillon sliding bar as it is activated back and forth. Particularly if the sliding bar is worn. The LNL powder measure is a rotary barrel design that handles all types of powder MUCH better than the Dillon. A rotary barrel is the same design used by RCBS, Sinclair and other manufacturers. I have never heard of a rotary type measure “leak”. Also, it is a pain to swap out the Dillon powder measure to another die plate. As a result, many owners have several powder measures on separate die plates for changing calibers. This significantly drives UP the COST. I have never heard of a LNL owner that has more than one powder measure. There is no need. It is easy to adjust. Many LNL owners, myself included, own several "Powder Dies" that are pre-adjusted to load a specific case. (Note: The powder die fits into the outlet of the powder measure.) Each LNL powder die costs about $20. A Dillon powder measure costs $75.

Also, IMHO, the Dillon de-priming/priming system is less reliable than the LNL. With the Dillon system, spent primers drop through the bottom of the shell plate into a small cup. It is an “open” system and is easy to empty. However, the press gets dirty with carbon. Whenever carbon/dust/dirt or “primer dust” fouls the primer seating station this causes "flipped" or "skipped" primers. The DILLON de-priming system works well provided it is kept CLEAN. With the Hornady LNL, spent primers are dropped completely through the press into a plastic tube and into the trash or bottle or whatever you want to use. It is a “closed” system. You never get carbon in and around the bottom of the shell plate. The point is the dirt off the spent primers does not foul the workings of the press. I have never had a “flipped” primer. Although, I have had “missed” primers that I feel were operator error (ME!) and not the fault of the primer system. (I forgot to seat the primer!) In all fairness, the LNL primer seating station will also not work properly if the primer slide is fouled with dirt or powder. Please note that neither Dillon or LNL primer systems will work flawlessly unless they are adjusted properly. Users of BOTH systems have expressed exasperation with these adjustments.

If you want a “Powder Check” system you need a press with at least five stations. The Dillon Square Deal and Dillon 550 both have 4 die stations. The LNL and Dillon 650 both have 5 stations. However, the 650 costs significantly more than the LNL. The Dillon 1050 is really an industrial machine and has eight stations.

How the presses indexes is an issue for some people. In reading the web about "KABOOMS" (Blowing up a gun!!), many of the kabooms I have read about were directly traced back to a manually indexing press. This is not the fault of the press but, operator error. However, with a manually indexing press, If you get distracted while reloading, you can easily double charge a pistol case. (A double charge will depend on the powder you are using and the charge weight.) IMHO, a double charge is less of a problem with auto-indexing presses. The Hornady LNL, Dillon 650 and, Dillon Square Deal auto index. The MOST POPULAR Dillon press, the 550, is a manually indexing press. Some people prefer manual, some people prefer auto.

In addition, the LNL auto indexing is significantly smoother than the Dillon 650. The LNL indexes 1/2 step while the ram is going up and 1/2 step when the ram goes down. The 650 indexes a full step on the ram down stroke and can cause pistol cases to spill SMALL AMOUNTS or powder with the indexing "bump". IMHO, the LNL is dramatically better. Of course, the amount of powder "bumped" from a case is dependent on the powder charge, operator and, speed of reloading. As I stated above, you get primer problems with a dirty press. "Bumped" powder fouls BOTH Dillon and LNL.

Next, the LNL uses a really slick bushing system for mounting loading dies and powder measure to the press. It makes changing calibers and SNAP. After a die is adjusted for whatever you are loading you can remove the die from the press with an 1/8 turn and insert a different die. Each die has it's own bushing. The Dillon uses a die plate that has the powder measure and all loading dies installed. The Dillon die plate costs more than LNL bushings. Another neat feature with the Hornady is that you can buy a bushing conversion setup and use the same bushings on your RCBS, Lyman or other single stage press and the LNL!

Additionally, the LNL seems to be built like a tank! The ram is about 2"+ in diameter and the basic press is similar in construction to the RCBS Rock Chucker. I would say that a side-by-side comparison to the either the Dillon 550 OR 650, the LNL is at least as sturdily built. And, in some areas I think the LNL is better built. i.e., The massive ram, powder measure, and primer system. The head/top of the press is solid except for where the dies are inserted. The Dillon has a large cutout that is needed for their die plates. By just looking, it would seem the LNL would be stronger. But, of course, that may not be the case.

There is one piece that can get damaged on the LNL. There is a coil spring that holds the cases in the shell holder that can get crushed if you improperly change shell holders. That's the bad news. The good news is that they are only about $2-3 for three and they won't get crushed if you change shell plates correctly. Also, recently Hornady sends these out as a warranty item free of charge. The other good news is that this spring is the primary reason while loading you can easily remove a case at any station. The spring is durable if it is not abused. I have been using my current retainer spring for about 2 years. I have loaded at least 12,000 rounds in that time. With the Dillon you have to remove small individual brass pins in order to take a shell out of a shell plate. My fingers require needle-nose pliers or forceps to remove the brass pins. It is a PITA.

(For the next discussion keep in mind that BOTH DILLON AND LNL shell plates rotate CLOCKWISE.)

Another item to think about. For NON-CASE FEEDER users; all Dillon presses (Except 1050) require you to use BOTH hands to insert brass and bullets on the press. The Dillon 650, 550 and, SDB operates as follows;

1. Right hand inserts an empty case at the right, front side of the press.
2. Left hand then sets the bullet on the case mouth at the left, rear side of the press.
3. Right hand then activates the operating handle.
4. For Dillon 550 only, Left hand manually rotates shell plate.
5. You then release the operating handle and insert another case with your right hand and so forth. (Right, left, right, left, right, left)

(Note: With the Dillon 550 you also have to manually rotate the shell plate at step 4. Most people do this with their LEFT hand.)

With the Dillon, “right-left-right-left” hand operating procedure, clockwise rotation and, the fact that you start your loading process at the front, right side of the press, your bullet seating die is at the rear, left side of the press. Why is this important? The Dillon powder measure drops powder into the case and the case is rotated clockwise to the REAR of the press to the bullet seating die. It is very difficult to see inside of the case to see the gunpowder. Many Dillon owners rig up flashlight, mirror or, believe it or not, a video camera to “look” into the case to see the powder charge.

With the LNL you start your loading process at the REAR, left side of the press. As your case rotates clockwise, after the powder is dropped, your case is directly in the front of the press and the bullet is seated directly in front of the person operating the press. Is is VERY EASY to look directly into the case to see the powder charge. Even though I use a “Powder Check” die. I look directly into each case as I am loading. I have never had a squib load OR a double charge. This is not to say that it can’t happen. It can. I just haven’t experienced one.

Loading cases and bullets with the left hand is very natural to me. Others may really dislike this feature and prefer the right/left/right/left/right operation of Dillon. Please note that a case feeder eliminates this operation and both Dillon and LNL only load bullets on the left side of the press. Dillon at the back of the press and LNL at the front of the press.

Dillon Customer service is legendary. You can buy a used Dillon press that is a total wreak and they will rebuild or send you a new one for about $40-$50 bucks. Any parts you break will be replaced free of charge. Hornady service, in my experience, is equal. When I needed some replacement springs that broke do to age, Hornady replaced them free of charge. They will also rebuild your press if it needs it. I think most other manufacturers are matching Dillon’s service. Dillon raised the bar pretty high for customer service and other companies see how devoted customers are to the BLUE presses. I do feel that is one of the primary reasons Dillon’s prices are HIGH. But of course, I have no way of knowing that.

You can load anything on both the Dillon and LNL from .25 ACP to 500 N.E. Realistically, I would say that people with progressive loaders mostly load pistol ammo 99% of the time. After using the LNL, I feel confident that my Grandkids will be using when I'm gone.

In summary, the Hornady LNL has all the features of the Dillon 650 but, is much cheaper. However, the Dillon automatic case feeder is about $50 cheaper than the Hornady. Changing calipers on the LNL is faster and cheaper. The powder measure on the LNL is VASTLY SUPERIOR TO THE DILLON, at least in my opinion. I bought the LNL and am very satisfied. A shooting buddy of mine is a long time, dedicated Dillon user. He has three! After giving me a ration of "stuff" about my choice, he came over and used my LNL and sheepishly said, "That's a very nice setup!!" Good Luck on your search. You really can't go wrong with Blue or Red.

Again, this ^^^ is an EXCELLENT post.

I have had very much the same experience with my LNL AP.
I bought mine used with both the case feeder and the bullet feeder. Both feeders work well, but both have a few minor issues. EG: the bullet feeder is not capable of feeding 300BLK bullets on to a case properly. Not without making modifications anyways.

I can also tell you that the Hornady customer service has been outstanding.

All in all, I have been happy with it but I am going to sell it as I want a press with at least 8 or 10 stations.
I hate the powder-through expander as mentioned above and I want to separate out mouth expanding, seating, crimping, etc.

 

[Waldog]

One of the common gripes about the LNL is the Hornady Powder Through Expander. You need a caliber specific expander and they are a pain to set up. I totally agree that the Hornady version is less than optimum. Early on I found this....https://www.cbararmory.com/product-page/hornady-lock-n-load-universal-powder-thru-expander

And, I never looked back. I HIGHLY RECOMMEND.

It is a Universal expander that works ON ANY case from 380/9mm up to 50AE. One expander for any pistol case you want to load. It does an excellent job expanding the case mouth before bullet seating. You do have to adjust for the length of the case. Obviously a 9mm is shorter than a 44mag. He also makes one for your Dillon presses.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I have a Lee single stage press. Like it well enough. Only my second year reloading. Was thinking about going to a progressive press? Thoughts? Recommendations? I would t want to have to buy all new dies!

I've no idea what volume you are reloading, but you can split the difference with a turret press. You'll load a lot faster than a single stage, but the process is pretty much the same as you are used to. The turret plates swap out for easy switching between cartridges.

It's certainly not going to crank out the number of rounds per hour a progressive will, but it's cheaper and (IMO) less fiddly.

 

[SnoopLoggyDog]

Have a Dillon Square Deal B for .38 and 9mm pistol and Hornady single stage for rifle. Next press will be a Hornady Lock N Load.

Have also thought about picking up another used Dillon SDB. Then I would leave one set up all the time in .38 and the other in 9mm.

 

[sapper83]

Have a Dillon Square Deal B for .38 and 9mm pistol and Hornady single stage for rifle. Next press will be a Hornady Lock N Load.

Have also thought about picking up another used Dillon SDB. Then I would leave one set up all the time in .38 and the other in 9mm.

I got the lock n load! Love it!

 

[Jarvitron]

I have a 550 and while I love it, I wouldn't pay retail price for it when the LnL AP is out there with an extra station and non-janky casefeeding capabilities.
The 650/750 is also a hard sell when the LnL AP is out there frequently with rebates and offers, and the 1050/1100 is in my opinion only interesting when you are considering automation.
I'm very interested in the Frankford Arsenal X10 if/when I get to the pistol volume where I want to really be putting out thousands of rounds.

 

[574mag]

There is an awful lot here to analyze. It would seem that you can’t really go wrong per se, but you can go right-er. Or maybe I’m over simplifying it? I do like keeping track of the quality checks on the single stage.

 

[42253]

There is an awful lot here to analyze. It would seem that you can’t really go wrong per se, but you can go right-er. Or maybe I’m over simplifying it? I do like keeping track of the quality checks on the single stage.

Maybe a turret press would work for you.

 

[Aszerigan]

I can’t imagine loading 4-500 an hour. lol

Run a Dillon 1100 sometime. I load 400-500 rounds between coffee cup refills. :-)

 

[sapper83]

Run a Dillon 1100 sometime. I load 400-500 rounds between coffee cup refills. :-)

 

[574mag]

Still looking and reading. Hard to decide with all of the options. Don’t think there is a clear cut winner. At least not yet.

 

[92FSTech]

How many rounds do you shoot/load per month? How many primers and bullets are you buying? And how much time do you have available to reload? How many different calibers do you plan to load, and how frequently do you plan to switch between calibers on your bench? These are the things that should guide your choice.

If you're only buying/loading a couple hundred rounds a month, a turret press might be plenty for your needs. If you're frequently switching calibers and running batches of a couple hundred or less, a turret will actually probably be faster, and definitely less expensive (I can swap calibers on my Lee 4-hole classic turret in about 30 seconds, and the toolheads are less than $15). Under 1000 of the same caliber per month and the LNL or 550 are decent contenders. 1000+ I'd be looking at something with a case and bullet feeder.

 

[574mag]

I don’t NEED to load anything at the moment. I about pretty often, but they aren’t long sessions. Since I can shoot at home, I don’t feel the need to put in a bunch of work at any given time. I’m not a competition guy, just practice to stay somewhat sharp. I’ve never loaded more than 600 or so a month.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I don’t NEED to load anything at the moment. I about pretty often, but they aren’t long sessions. Since I can shoot at home, I don’t feel the need to put in a bunch of work at any given time. I’m not a competition guy, just practice to stay somewhat sharp. I’ve never loaded more than 600 or so a month.

Sounds like turret press territory to me, especially if you load multiple cartridges.

 

[russc2542]

There is an awful lot here to analyze. It would seem that you can’t really go wrong per se, but you can go right-er. Or maybe I’m over simplifying it? I do like keeping track of the quality checks on the single stage.

Yes, I would accept that as a workable simplification

I started with a Lee progressive and was thrilled when I got 100 rounds out of a 100 round primer tray. Lee is like a 70 year old car that needs constant adjustments, tune-ups, and maintenance every 1000 miles or like something Rube-Goldbergian I cobbled together in my garage that usually works if you know how to sweet talk it. My 750 just kinda works. Get it set up right and it's almost boring how reliable it is. I only break to feed it, fill my drink, and rest my shoulder. I never had to rest my arm to prevent repetitive motion issues with my Lee if you know what I mean.

 

[Twangbanger]

I don’t NEED to load anything at the moment. I about pretty often, but they aren’t long sessions. Since I can shoot at home, I don’t feel the need to put in a bunch of work at any given time. I’m not a competition guy, just practice to stay somewhat sharp. I’ve never loaded more than 600 or so a month.

You sound like a "wants minimal hassle" type of person. Waldog gave you an outstanding post above, which neatly summarizes my experiences in choosing the Hornady LnL over Dillons for long-term use. But the Hornady is not without quirks of its own, so allow me to offer you a well-thought-out "Semi-Progressive" alternative to consider.

Something which hasn't been mentioned yet, or maybe only partially touched-on. Priming and decapping are the big bugaboos of any progressive press. People will have different opinions on brands.

If you're not super high-volume, I'd recommend an alternative "hybrid" setup, which I will list the components separately, with my reasons for choosing each (I personally use each of these and can vouch for them):

Use a single stage press like Lee Challenger, with a Universal depriming tool for decapping ($76 and $15, respectively, from Midway USA):

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1013005426?pid=176078

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1011183740?pid=136543

This gets you away from one of the most high-force operations in a progressive press, which is depriming, and eliminates the misalignment of the pin to the slop in a progressive plate and the resulting issues when the pin misses the hole (don't you hate it when that happens ) and bends your decapping pin.

Then, in order to get away from the hassle of progressive priming systems, and the laborious change-over times between small and large primers (people often own multiple presses to get around this), I recommend getting one of the "hand-priming" tools like Lee Ergo-Prime - not sure if they still make that model, but here is basically the same thing...($26 from Midway):

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012833172?pid=413473

...this gives a very satisfying, accurate primer seat, seating all primers flush and almost zero change-over time from small to large primers, and no need to load primer tubes, both of which are huge-wins over a progressive setup in my opinion.

Then take your primed cases, and use a Lee 4-station turret press for powder dropping, seating the bullet and crimping ($200 kit from Midway, the version which is "minus" the fiddly primer-seater - you will not be using the depriming or priming functions, which have already been done with separate tools):

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1013016267?pid=622290

And finally, use the final station of the Turret press to mount a Lee Factory Crimp Die ($26 from Midway):

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1011209519?pid=557190

...which eliminates 90+% of rounds not chambering.

This totals up to $343, without tax and shipping from Midway. You will have just under half the investment of one of the progressive presses from a flagship manufacturer, but you will have the advantages listed with each point above. Your production rate will be somewhere between a single-stage and a progressive press, but all the potential headaches have been eliminated.

I have owned several major brands of progressive presses (Two Hornadies including a LnL, Dillon, Ponsness-Warren), and still have the Hornady LnL. But these days I'm a low-to-medium volume reloader, and I'm running the above setup, except I substitute the final 3 stations in my Hornady LnL (instead of the Lee Turret press).

Check it out and give it some thought. Progressives are great for high volume, no doubt there. But they do have hassles (loading primer tubes, tricky decapping, tricky priming, laborious change-overs from large to small primers). I have personally used all the above products, and my current hybrid setup saves all the headaches I've encountered over the years, with the stipulation this is a "medium" output setup, not high-volume. It will give you careful control over the "tricky" operations, at a significant time savings over a single stage press. For moderate volumes, it does the job.

Keep in mind: a lot of the problems I've mentioned above actually detract from the productivity of progressive presses. The loading rates many people are specifying for progressive presses are not counting the headaches they're resolving with primer tubes, primer size changeovers, etc. Progressives will load the quoted rates once those problems have been dealt with, but they still add to your overall loading time. If you're a lower-volume person who doesn't want fiddly hassles, I think you will find the above setup is less failure-prone on individual operations, and gives you a respectable output for minimal investment, and without the headaches you will find from trial and error with a progressive press.

 

[red_zr24x4]

Between me and my brother we have 2 Dillon 550's, a Dillon 650 with Case feeder, a Dillon 1050 with case feeder and a couple of RCBS single stage.
We have enough tool heads for the 550's to load about 10 different calibers. The 650 stays set up for 9mm and the 1050 is set for 38's
Once the dies are set up caliber change overs are quick and simple

 

[khayden65]

I have owned, Lee L/M, Hornady L-N-L, Dillon XL650 & XL750 and Mark 7 Apex10. Starting out on your first progressive I would recommend the Dillon XL750. Caliber change over is a bit more expensive but worth it in my honest opinion. Be preparred to fine tune a bit with any of them.