Property tax needs to be repealed / abolished NOW! (Morgan Co info here)

[Cavman]

So clearly the benefit of this is the locked tax rate forever. A couple of questions and points, if implemented citizens owning the same property could be paying vastly different taxes, the Indiana supreme court has already ruled this is not constitutional in Indiana. Would this be different?

So you have 5 acres you bought for $300,000 in 2014 and your locked tax is $3000 per year. Your son wants to buy a similar 5 acres nearby, for $600,000. Now 1% is no longer enough to cover the budget because the first property is only paying $3000 per year and would be paying $6000 based on market value. The taxes on the son’s property will need to be $12,000 to generate the revenue over time. Then in a few years a guy buying your place from you will be faced with a continuing rising spiral of property tax.

Unless we change things dramatically, not likely, government is going to get what they want, is this a fair distribution of burden for the goal of a locked tax rate forever?

Why should the budget keep growing requiring more and more taxes? Let's be clear our republican super majority has increased the budget and raised taxes. How about we gut the govt and the spending.

 

[sapper83]

Why should the budget keep growing requiring more and more taxes? Let's be clear our republican super majority has increased the budget and raised taxes. How about we gut the govt and the spending.

This is the FIRST step that needs taken to start fixing the problem. Drink to that!

 

[Cavman]

This is the FIRST step that needs taken to start fixing the problem. Drink to that!

Just one cause you know they'll tax the hell out of the 2nd

 

[Ingomike]

Why should the budget keep growing requiring more and more taxes? Let's be clear our republican super majority has increased the budget and raised taxes. How about we gut the govt and the spending.

Is your grocery budget the same as five years ago? Yes, we should cut government spending , however, the equipment, materials, and labor costs to fix potholes for example are not what they were five years ago either.

 

[Cavman]

Is your grocery budget the same as five years ago? Yes, we should cut government spending , however, the equipment, materials, and labor costs to fix potholes for example are not what they were five years ago either.

Is your govt providing you more than adequate services for your taxes? Yes everything has gone up. So maybe cut the social bs programs and anything that isn't actual need provided by the govt. Why are schools still building bright shiny crap when its not needed? And pot hole? How about those sales tax and gas tax, tire tax and registration actually pay for good quality asphalt instead of that chip and seal crap. We pay premium and get crap in return

 

[Ingomike]

Is your govt providing you more than adequate services for your taxes?

I am ok with my local and county services for the cost.

Yes everything has gone up. So maybe cut the social bs programs and anything that isn't actual need provided by the govt.

Agreed!

Why are schools still building bright shiny crap when its not needed?

I believe schools need to be removed from property tax period.

And pot hole? How about those sales tax and gas tax, tire tax and registration actually pay for good quality asphalt instead of that chip and seal crap.

As I understand it the state has set up the roads to be on specific timetables, on the interstate I think it is ten years, meaning a highway like I70 will have 10% of it under construction each year. Many municipalities and counties have a similar approach, though the time frames vary. Chip and seal is saving you money.

We pay premium and get crap in return

Indiana has among the lowest property taxes in the country, and a middle overall tax burden.

 

[sapper83]

Is your grocery budget the same as five years ago? Yes, we should cut government spending , however, the equipment, materials, and labor costs to fix potholes for example are not what they were five years ago either.

That is another can of worms! Cutting spending would wrangle back inflation. Our dollars is trash bc we keep printing and spending trillions on pointless crap.

The big picture is like a puzzle and each piece compounds the issues.

 

[sapper83]

I believe schools need to be removed from property tax period.

100%

As I understand it the state has set up the roads to be on specific timetables, on the interstate I think it is ten years, meaning a highway like I70 will have 10% of it under construction each year. Many municipalities and counties have a similar approach, though the time frames vary. Chip and seal is saving you money.

If they would pave with a purpose and not waste money and time it would save millions. They set up the cones for 6 months with nothing taking place, then a few guys tear it up and leave it for a bit, then they finialy decide to pave.

The engineer corp could completely cut and pave a road through undeveloped areas several miles a day. (Efficiency) not saying use the military but use thier processes like we do in nuclear power plants.

 

[sapper83]

Is your govt providing you more than adequate services for your taxes? Yes everything has gone up. So maybe cut the social bs programs and anything that isn't actual need provided by the govt. Why are schools still building bright shiny crap when its not needed? And pot hole? How about those sales tax and gas tax, tire tax and registration actually pay for good quality asphalt instead of that chip and seal crap. We pay premium and get crap in return

Social programs are needed but they are so easily and heavily abused! Thats yet agian another can of worms needing fixed.

I have mentioned the taxes you have also and it keeps falling on deaf ears. Don't forget our toll roads that bring in billions but we leased them to another country! Wtf

If we cut the FAT in all angles. The few taxes we have mentioned would be very close to covering essentially everything.

 

[Lex Concord]

So those that do not own property should pay for services to property?

You listed some services earlier in the thread, all or most of which were beneficial beyond private property holders and the property they hold (schools, police, fire, etc.).

I haven't been around for a bit and may have missed an earlier enumeration, but what are your concerns? About what specific services are you concerned that those who don't own property might have to pay if property taxes were to be abolished?

Services that benefit all can be shifted to other tax sources. If there are services that only benefit "property", they could be covered by fees and, in some cases, may be eliminated (the County Assessor's office comes to mind )

 

[jamil]

Is your grocery budget the same as five years ago? Yes, we should cut government spending , however, the equipment, materials, and labor costs to fix potholes for example are not what they were five years ago either.

If it’s by market value, does the government budget double if the market value doubles?

 

[jamil]

Why should government entities that rely on property taxes have a windfall for every housing bubble? As mentioned there are other ways to raise money governments need to operate. Have a bake sale.

 

[Knight Rider]

What would be the better system?

How about moving towards fee for service? It works for groceries, auto/fuel, insurance, utilities, construction, healthcare(in my case), telecom, etc.

At the heart of this is that my taxes, at pretty much all levels, do not go for government to protect my rights, or enrich or advance my lot in life. It goes to do those things for individuals and groups who don’t pay taxes and yet are still provided those services regardless of effort, contributions, or legal residency for that matter.

As anyone can see from my post totals, I usually just read, learn from, and enjoy these discussions from afar. And the truth is I am in 100% agreement with most every post I read from IM. I just had to vent a bit on this topic.

 

[Lucar186]

Governor Daniels did in fact make progress on property tax burden. Unfortunately regardless of what percentage of your property's value is taxed when the dollar is devalued at the rate it currently is and therefore your property dollar value rapidly escalates the total tax burden continues to rise.

This is one of my abiding concerns with our current inflation rate, and what is likely coming which will be worse. As high inflation and eventually hyperinflation hits people will lose their homes because they are simply taxed out of them.

The proceeding is the death spiral that country after country has experienced when they have debased their currency as we have. The only winners are those in a position to hold hard assets outside of the nation who can then purchase property with converted devalued currency building enormous power and wealth in the process. With a couple of exceptions that is unlikely to be those of us on this board.

You will note that this scenario destroys one of the common methods of countering inflationary times. The purchasing and holding of real property as hard assets. When those assets are taxed they are never truly yours. And has been proven over and over the government will be more than happy to confiscate your property and sell it to others for that tax burden.

State tax changes are at best Band-Aid to what is currently occurring. The only actual correction reside at the Federal reserve level wherein the dollar is pegged to some tangible thing or things and the inflationary cycle is curtailed.

I thought our governor’s name was Eric Holcomb?

 

[jamil]

How about moving towards fee for service? It works for groceries, auto/fuel, insurance, utilities, construction, healthcare(in my case), telecom, etc.

At the heart of this is that my taxes, at pretty much all levels, do not go for government to protect my rights, or enrich or advance my lot in life. It goes to do those things for individuals and groups who don’t pay taxes and yet are still provided those services regardless of effort, contributions, or legal residency for that matter.

As anyone can see from my post totals, I usually just read, learn from, and enjoy these discussions from afar. And the truth is I am in 100% agreement with most every post I read from IM. I just had to vent a bit on this topic.

Whoa, hold on there. Next thing you know you'll be telling us no one needs HOA's.

 

[jamil]

I thought our governor’s name was Eric Holcomb?

Mitch Daniels was governor of Indiana from 2005 - 2013. It is common to refer to a former office holder by the title of the highest office they held.

 

[dudley0]

I realize this will start a more heated debate but why is it that churches, or more importantly church colleges, do not have to pay property taxes?

In Grant County there are two rather large religious colleges. From what I hear they do not pay federal taxes nor do they pay property taxes on all the properties they own.

So when someone donates property to the school they essentially take the property off the tax roles if they are not using the property as a rental.

Is this correct?

Looking on the county website for Taylor University in Upland I see a lot of property owned by the college. I also see a lot of the property taxes at $0.00 for multiple years.

This college makes money hand over fist, so why don't they have to at least pay property taxes? I am sure the same can be said for IWU in Marion.

 

[jamil]

I've said before I don't think religious institutions should get a break from paying taxes. Even property taxes. Other than, maybe if some entities can get out of paying property taxes, maybe there's hope for the rest of us.

 

[firecadet613]

I realize this will start a more heated debate but why is it that churches, or more importantly church colleges, do not have to pay property taxes?

In Grant County there are two rather large religious colleges. From what I hear they do not pay federal taxes nor do they pay property taxes on all the properties they own.

So when someone donates property to the school they essentially take the property off the tax roles if they are not using the property as a rental.

Is this correct?

Looking on the county website for Taylor University in Upland I see a lot of property owned by the college. I also see a lot of the property taxes at $0.00 for multiple years.

This college makes money hand over fist, so why don't they have to at least pay property taxes? I am sure the same can be said for IWU in Marion.

That's correct. They are exempt.

 

[Ingomike]

You listed some services earlier in the thread, all or most of which were beneficial beyond private property holders and the property they hold (schools, police, fire, etc.).

I haven't been around for a bit and may have missed an earlier enumeration, but what are your concerns? About what specific services are you concerned that those who don't own property might have to pay if property taxes were to be abolished?

Services that benefit all can be shifted to other tax sources. If there are services that only benefit "property", they could be covered by fees and, in some cases, may be eliminated (the County Assessor's office comes to mind )

Still looking for that comprehensive list of where our property tax dollars go, but a few are the deeds office, surveyors office, drainage office are all certainly property related. It is interesting how thinking evolves also. Streets and roads were once considered property centric, now most think they are car centric, property value is drastically reduced if there is no access. Police snd Fire were largely to protect property.

Schools were funded by property taxes because our forefathers believed that was a fair measure of wealth and that property owners benefited from an educated society, this began in the early 1600’s. If we don’t understand why these taxes exist or even know what all is paid for from our property tax how can we intelligently discuss how to eliminate or shift them?