Prosecutor Says Colion Noir Should Be In Prison?! (You Decide)

[bwframe]

The video is great reinforcement of the fact that probably none of us will perform or remember details of an event like this the way we think we will. I like to think I would, but stats say otherwise.

The FOF scenario is to show how people react under stress during a self defense event. If you learn your weak points you can adapt accordingly.

A scenario I ran was similar to Noir's. In the heat of the amped up moment, I shot the fleeing BG in the back also, along with clipping an innocent bystander in the leg that I wasn't even aware was there.

I argued with the instructor for quite a bit about me being right to shoot the BG in the back, going out the door. He smartly explained that if the scenario was for real I wouldn't be arguing anything. My expensive lawyer would be arguing for me in court.

Needless to say, I learned a lot from the experience.


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[jlw]

I guess what I'm trying to get at is not as much the number of shots vs programming in to stop shooting when the attacker flees?



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Thus the peril of pushing for split speeds faster than .35. Faster than that, and you are in a range where one is likely to shoot after the conditions change. This is one instance where we really need to separate technical skill and application.

 

[2tonic]

For those of us who just don't want to sit through another BS Utube vid, did Colion Noir shoot somebody?

FOF Simunitions training scenario aftermath and debriefing.
Strictly pretend.

 

[blain]

I'll give you the same advice I give my family. If you are involved in a self defense shooting, give responding officers a "public safety" statement. Essentially, "This person was trying (add in applicable felony), I was in fear for my life (or the life of a 3rd party), and I had to protect myself." Let them know if there are other suspects outstanding. However, don't get into the details. You want to set the basic scene for responding officers, so they can start their investigation. However, a detailed (official, recorded) statement should involve a lawyer.....PERIOD!!! Follow your lawyers advise. It's the same advise I give my officers as well. It's just smart.

Are officers in Indiana (city, county & state), allowed to lie to anyone being detained and questioned?

Do people being questioned not believe the warning of...
“Anything you say can and will be used against you in court.”

 

[Denny347]

Are officers in Indiana (city, county & state), allowed to lie to anyone being detained and questioned?

Do people being questioned not believe the warning of...
“Anything you say can and will be used against you in court.”

It's legal

 

[blain]

It's legal

Police lie in the course of their interrogation.
Is that not a cousin of malicious prosecution?

Sorry, but this turns my sense of justice & fair play upside down.
* Police can lie to a detained person (no harm, no foul).
* A detained person lies to the police (open to charges for the lie).

 

[HoughMade]

Police lie in the course of their interrogation.
Is that not a cousin of malicious prosecution?

Sorry, but this turns my sense of justice & fair play upside down.
* Police can lie to a detained person (no harm, no foul).
* A detained person lies to the police (open to charges for the lie).

Whether one believes that police should be able to lie to persons they are interrogating, that has precisely nothing to do with the issue of malicious prosecution.

 

[Denny347]

Police lie in the course of their interrogation.
Is that not a cousin of malicious prosecution?

Sorry, but this turns my sense of justice & fair play upside down.
* Police can lie to a detained person (no harm, no foul).
* A detained person lies to the police (open to charges for the lie).

Ummmm, people lie to us ALL the time and there is nothing we can do about it. It's not "typically" a crime to lie to us.
Not all lies ate the same either. I get a 911 call of a suspicious person and you match the description, so I stop you. I tell you the caller is anonymous when in reality we know who called. That's a lie. You may be oversimplifying the issue.

 

[bwframe]

Ummmm, people lie to us ALL the time and there is nothing we can do about it. It's not "typically" a crime to lie to us.
Not all lies ate the same either. I get a 911 call of a suspicious person and you match the description, so I stop you. I tell you the caller is anonymous when in reality we know who called. That's a lie. You may be oversimplifying the issue.

As always sir, thank you so much for your professional insider information.

Does all law enforcement have carte blanche on lying to suspects? Is there is no time where this comes back to make them accountable or threaten the validity of charges?

This thread on training has taken an interesting turn.


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[Denny347]

As always sir, thank you so much for your professional insider information.

Does all law enforcement have carte blanche on lying to suspects? Is there is no time where this comes back to make them accountable or threaten the validity of charges?

This thread on training has taken an interesting turn.


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I enjoy the mental exercises.

The Supreme Court ruled in Frazier v. Cupo (1969) that police officers can lie during an investigation as long as it does not “shock the conscience of the court or the community.”

It's a similar standard for non-LE as well. You can lie to us as long as it is nothing significant, making a false report, etc. Otherwise it's perfectly legal for each side to lie to the other.

 

[Jaybird1980]

Police lie in the course of their interrogation.
Is that not a cousin of malicious prosecution?

Sorry, but this turns my sense of justice & fair play upside down.
* Police can lie to a detained person (no harm, no foul).
* A detained person lies to the police (open to charges for the lie).

They can and do.

I had a CO lie his ass off. Spent 45 minutes trying to convince me that he had video of me doing something I never did. Tried real hard to get me to "just go to the station and talk about it".

He showed up a week later at my house with papers to report to court. Of course when I got to the prosecutors office there was none of this magical evidence and all charges were dropped.

Had no problems trying to jam me up and get me to admit to something that never happened and wasting a bunch of my time.

 

[Refrigerator27]

Don't forget, this video is intended to sell you USCCA carry insurance. Everyone in the video including Colion Noir, who is one of my personal favorite guntubers, is paid by USCCA as this is an ad for why you need their service. Take it with a grain of salt.

 

[SmileDocHill]

This is essentially what John Farnam (and other cops I’ve talked to) teaches in his classes, along with pointing out any evidence helpful To you, like “he dropped his gun in those bushes can as he ran away.”

James Duane is really interesting and convincing, but handled (or knows of) cases people who said too much or nothing at all to the police and got busted and maybe convicted. Particular to self-defense, he didn’t cover any cases where someone did talk to the police and was not charged. This is the part that Denny and other cops know and Duane doesn’t (or at least didn’t acknowledge). It would be interesting to have a study that includes that group.

Of course, if you haven’t practiced a little to be able to use Denny’s advice, you’re probably better just to shut up until you talk to your lawyer. I was once in a close-knit training group, had several police officers, and one day they arranged a mock self-defense scenario where the cops quizzed us afterward as if they were investigating. Everybody knows it’s role-playing, and what the answer supposed to be, but it was interesting, how much my internal tension went up at being questioned even though it wasn’t “real “.

This sounds like a REALLY cool addition to a group of shooting/training friends. Even if only a "fill in" and not a regular.

 

[The Bubba Effect]

Are officers in Indiana (city, county & state), allowed to lie to anyone being detained and questioned?

Do people being questioned not believe the warning of...
“Anything you say can and will be used against you in court.”

Edited: i didnt really answer your question and don't know enough to answer it.