Punched in face...draw?

[newguy]

i would draw but...... has anyone thought about the possibility that the thug may be carrying too? what if he drew a weapon?
stirring the pot here dont mind me.

 

[cmepp18]

All I can say is that people have died from one punch. Take that for what it's worth.

A judge won't take that for what it's worth.

 

[jbombelli]

A judge won't take that for what it's worth.

Do you know every judge in the country, or are you psychic?

 

[indiucky]

Unless it's a line to marry Jewel Staite......then the gloves are off and may God have mercy on your soul.

Now why on Earth (or Space) would you want to do that???

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYopf8KSy4o[/ame]

 

[indiucky]

Hmmm... wonder what's gonna happen when that slide goes full battery with his booger hook on the bang switch...

Ethan or Joel Cohen yells "CUT"!!!!

 

[actaeon277]

Perception.
You can fire to prevent a violent felony, protect a life, protect your house.
What can you say to a jury?
If you are a 350 pound biker in the "Invaders", being punched to death by a ninja grandmother, you might have a hard time making people believe it. The reality, your life was in danger, but you can't show that (in my example).

A single punch and nothing more may be hard to defend in court. But if you get hard enough to see stars, the room sways, and he's coming back for more. You do what you think is necessary.

Each situation will be different.
It will be different for each of us.
It will be the devil trying to justify to a court.

 

[grogie]

As someone else basically said, I'd try not to let it escalate as I would think it would make it tougher to prove my innocence to a jury if I had responded to get the guy to throw the punch? When I'm carrying I do become Mr. nice guy... calm and cool. I'll just smile and wave like the Queen of England...

Just yesterday in fact, I took the wife's ride over to a gas station to fill it up as I don't like her doing so due to the characters that one can run into. Well I had a worthless piece of human debris approach me. I noticed him walking around as I drove in; parked away from him and watched him. He saw me watching, so he pulls out a cell phone, walks past me acting like he's making a call. I took my attention off of him for 15 seconds and he was right there, two feet from me.

He starts in on this bs story; doesn't even make sense. I right away put out my left hand and said in a loud voice, "Back off!"

He turns and walks away from me and says some rude comment, which I responded too. He goes back to this POS old SUV he's riding in with another loser. Turns out he talked some other guy with a family in a minivan into buying them gas. (I have a feeling he intimidated to guy to do so?)

I was not carrying. It was stupid of me to respond to his rude comment, as either way I didn't need to escalate it as he could have further as well? I'm pretty sure I would have not done so if I had been carrying. Of course I would not give him a dime either way! The back off comment with my hand up has been something I've used before. One time I had a big black guy do something similar. His approaching comment was that he wanted to save my soul!

 

[U.S. Patriot]

It all depends on the situation. It's not always cut and dry. Say you escalate, get hit, then draw. If witnesses tell the police that you instigated, that will definitely change the outcome, even if you where the one that was struck. There are a lot of idiots out there, and it's just not worth it. I avoid crowded areas at all cost. I do my grocery shopping on Sunday mornings, etc. Less likely to run into some jack ass, not saying it never happens.

 

[AD Marc]

Interesting to see everyone focused on the legalities...but what about the rest of it? You know, important stuff like how you are actually going to pull it off. At contact distances, we know that if you go for your gun before getting dominant positioning, you will likely end up in a grappling match over your gun. If you end up in a gun grapple with a bigger, stronger, more skilled individual--just the sort of person where you could argue a disparity of force existed--there is a high likelihood you will loose. In order to get dominant positioning, you need to have a strong unarmed skillset, and if you have a strong unarmed skillset and can readily get dominant positioning, using your gun might no longer be necessary or justified.

Threads like this are fun exercises in mental masturbation, but reality is way more complicated than just deciding whether to whip out your gat.

 

[jbombelli]

Interesting to see everyone focused on the legalities...but what about the rest of it? You know, important stuff like how you are actually going to pull it off. At contact distances, we know that if you go for your gun before getting dominant positioning, you will likely end up in a grappling match over your gun. If you end up in a gun grapple with a bigger, stronger, more skilled individual--just the sort of person where you could argue a disparity of force existed--there is a high likelihood you will loose. In order to get dominant positioning, you need to have a strong unarmed skillset, and if you have a strong unarmed skillset and can readily get dominant positioning, using your gun might no longer be necessary or justified.

Threads like this are fun exercises in mental masturbation, but reality is way more complicated than just deciding whether whip out your gat.

Wow. NOBODY around here knew THAT! Thanks for sharing your great wisdom! There's not a single person here on this forum who's EVER practiced ANYTHING like WEAPON RETENTION.

I guess we should just all give up, quit our jobs, stop carrying guns or knives and dedicate our lives to Muay Thai.

 

[INMIline]

If I were having words with someone I would be expecting a fight to break out. Not provoking one, but anticipating something. So I'd like to think I would be in a position to defend myself. Best defense is a good offense. People will lecture on this board about firearm training. Why not learn what works for you in a situation like this. It happens

 

[AD Marc]

Wow. NOBODY around here knew THAT! Thanks for sharing your great wisdom! There's not a single person here on this forum who's EVER practiced ANYTHING like WEAPON RETENTION.

I guess we should just all give up, quit our jobs, stop carrying guns or knives and dedicate our lives to Muay Thai.

u mad, bro?

 

[LPMan59]

Too many witnesses. If I were in an alley or something he'd be dead. In the line at a store, he'd be arrested for assault.

fail.

 

[88GT]

IMO, you don't draw your gun for a little ***** slap.

I'll draw whenever I'm ******* good and ready /Maverick

You draw your gun after there are repeated ***** slaps.

So I'm supposed to take multiple shots to the head and face before you say it's okay to defend myself????????

If you're on the ground, and the blows keep coming, then do what you have to do.

Um, no. The whole point is not to end up on the ground, thankyouverymuch.

The first punch? No, that's not grounds to draw your gun.

Then just exactly how many punches do I have to take before it is okay. We've established that it has to be more than one, but does it have to be more than 5? 10?

This is true. But you've also escalated a situation needlessly (IMO). However, as you pointed out, this could be different if you were infirm and continued blows would be deadly and leaving the area could not be accomplished quickly.

I'm not saying pulling a gun is a terrible idea, just that I think there are better alternatives for most people.

Needlessly? Some douchebag hits me in the face and you think me pulling a firearm to ensure he doesn't do it again is "needless."

What if that punch was a full on hard-as-the-guy-can-swing... and lands on a woman's face?

What if the guy was a 30something bodybuilder type and the lady was twice that old and not so fit?

Can opened...worms EVERYwhere.

We must do such a good job at blending in with all the menfolk that they forget when on INGO that women can be a part of these scenarios as well.

 

[iChokePeople]

Um, no. The whole point is not to end up on the ground, thankyouverymuch.
.

Negative, ghost rider. It's all fun and games until the fight goes to the ground. Then it's a PARTY.

 

[esrice]

Needlessly? Some douchebag hits me in the face and you think me pulling a firearm to ensure he doesn't do it again is "needless."

If you can move away, or have the unarmed skills to deal with such a situation, then yes-- a gun is needless escalation.

If you can't move away, or if you don't possess the unarmed skills to deal with such a situation, then going to the gun might be your only option.

 

[jbombelli]

u mad, bro?

Don't like condescension.

Bro.

 

[Valvestate]

Interesting to see everyone focused on the legalities...but what about the rest of it? You know, important stuff like how you are actually going to pull it off. At contact distances, we know that if you go for your gun before getting dominant positioning, you will likely end up in a grappling match over your gun. If you end up in a gun grapple with a bigger, stronger, more skilled individual--just the sort of person where you could argue a disparity of force existed--there is a high likelihood you will loose. In order to get dominant positioning, you need to have a strong unarmed skillset, and if you have a strong unarmed skillset and can readily get dominant positioning, using your gun might no longer be necessary or justified.

Threads like this are fun exercises in mental masturbation, but reality is way more complicated than just deciding whether to whip out your gat.

The point is that people would rather use their weapon when threatened than fight for control over it.

 

[88GT]

If you can move away, or have the unarmed skills to deal with such a situation, then yes-- a gun is needless escalation.

If you can't move away, or if you don't possess the unarmed skills to deal with such a situation, then going to the gun might be your only option.

First, you didn't preface your original comment with any such "ifs." You made a blanket statement that implied applicability to all circumstances.

Second, the guy who resorts to physical force is the escalating party. Responding to an assault with greater force (or a display of it) is not escalating; it's self defense. It's already at SHTF status. Just how much higher do you think it goes?

Third, "needless" is your subjective opinion. He's already shown he's willing to resort to violence. How much more violent do I have to let him get before it's okay in your eyes to draw? Why do I have to wait until it's absolutely necessary (which might mean it's already too late) to draw? Why can't I use the firearm to tell him I'm prepared to meet his attack with force of my own that just happens to be greater than his fists?

Fourth, how needless is it if the firearm becomes the factor that causes the puncher to stand down?

Unless you are clairvoyant and capable of knowing the intent of the puncher, you can't determine whether the firearm is needlessly drawn or not. If you want to take the risk, be my guest. It's rather caddish to say that everyone must live their lives on your terms though.

 

[Newbomb92]

Every day and twice on Sunday.