Purchase a firearm using the paper "temporary" DL?

[shootersix]

I was cleared on 4 separate 4473 transfers using my exp DL.

then the gunshop was not reading your license!, and the store is at fault for transfering the gun to you, hell they shouldent have even called it in!

Doesn't matter as long as you put the old address on the 4473.

sure cause you didnt read the first paragraph above where you fill out your name. read the link you know the line where it says "punishable by up to 10 years in prison, and up to a 250 thousand dollar fine"
https://www.atf.gov/files/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf
will they do that? doubtfull, but they could!(and federal law says "valid goverment issued-identification" if you moved its not valid!

Thanks for all the input. I went last night after work, and had no problem using the combination of my old plastic license (had not expired yet) with the renewed paper copy I got from the BMV Tuesday. Needed the entire DL# off my old plastic license. Would have been out of luck without that. Was not an uncommon item, but it was a pretty good deal. I'm glad it was still there!!

yes you'll need both, (like you already know) you were lucky, if you had moved from another state, the bmv would have taken your old license, and you cant fill out paperwork till you get your hard plastic indiana license, but no worries, my daughter went to the license branch on a saturday, and by the next wednesday she had her hard copy

the first thing i ask is "do you have a current valid drivers license that shows where you live right now?", i used to as if they had a current license, but you'd be amazed at how many people said "yes but i moved" i reply then its not current or valid

 

[patience0830]

Why wouldn't

Why wouldn't you keep the hard copy of your old license while you wait for your new one? That's what I was told to do by the BMV while waiting on the new hard copy.

you keep the hard copy of your old license while you wait for your new one? That's what I was told to do by the BMV while waiting on the new hard copy.

According to our ATF agent that is improper ID since it is too easy to counterfeit. I can tell you any series of numbers and claim it is my DL number. You certainly can keep your hard copy if you want if your move was in state.

If you want to completely eliminate any doubts just call the shop your about to drive to and ask them. Every shop has different policies with differing degrees of leniency

Perhaps a CDL is a different animal, but the hard copy was confiscated by the license branch when the paper temporary copy was issued. The only thing that changed on my license was adding a Haz-Mat endorsement. Address and # remain the same..

 

[Tanfodude]

Applying as a resident or non resident? Shouldn't you have utility bills as proof for the former too?

 

[shootersix]

Applying as a resident or non resident? Shouldn't you have utility bills as proof for the former too?

no has to be goverment issued, on line 20a (the part the gunshop fills out) is says "Identification (e.g. Virginia drivers license (VA DL) or other valid goverment issued photo identification)"

now line 20b says "line 20a may be suplemented by another valid, goverment issued document showing transferee's residence address"

now an old drivers license(from indiana) with a new vehicle registration will work(as long as the registration has the new address) a tax bill would work, your indiana ltch would work, as long as its "state issued"(and shows your current address)and as long as you have a photo id as well(indiana drivers license or indiana id card)

i did use a bartender license once(it had the new address on it) and his drivers license(old address) and the owner of the shop(who was out at the time) said he didnt know if that would be kosher or not, i said "it's state issued"

idk about the cdl, but they confiscate out of state licenses, so if you move to indiana, you have to wait till the hard plastic one comes

 

[chipbennett]

And those moving back to Indiana from out of state are essentially non-persons for 7-10 business days, since the out-of-state license is surrendered when applying for an Indiana license.

 

[Stang51d]

I have never been able to keep the hard coppy when renewing.

And shootersix, it wasnt A shop. it was FOUR different shops.

 

[Stang51d]

Am I getting this right?

Just the paper coppy is not good.
Exp lic is not good
But paper copy + exp lic IS good???

I guess 2 wrongs DO make a right.

 

[LoriW]

I have never been able to keep the hard coppy when renewing.

And shootersix, it wasnt A shop. it was FOUR different shops.

Then that's 4 shops that should call the ATF for some training. As ShooterSix pointed out, line 20A says VALID ID. An expired license is not a valid ID.

Am I getting this right?

Just the paper coppy is not good.
Exp lic is not good
But paper copy + exp lic IS good???

I guess 2 wrongs DO make a right.

Nope. An expired license in any combination is not valid. The unexpired plastic DL establishes that John Doe IS John Doe. The paper copy establishes that John Doe lives where he says he lives. Could he have lied and said the plastic ID was the correct address? Sure, but then he's lying on the 4473. If someone's address on a DL is wrong there are still other ATF approved forms of ID that are accepted. Your LTCH, as long as it has the correct address on it, can be used WITH an otherwise valid DL. Per the ATF.

 

[Stang51d]

Then that's 4 shops that should call the ATF for some training. As ShooterSix pointed out, line 20A says VALID ID. An expired license is not a valid ID.



Nope. An expired license in any combination is not valid. The unexpired plastic DL establishes that John Doe IS John Doe. The paper copy establishes that John Doe lives where he says he lives. Could he have lied and said the plastic ID was the correct address? Sure, but then he's lying on the 4473. If someone's address on a DL is wrong there are still other ATF approved forms of ID that are accepted. Your LTCH, as long as it has the correct address on it, can be used WITH an otherwise valid DL. Per the ATF.

I was referring to an exp DL with the correct address. Just exp because it is past the exp date. Any address that I have ever put on a 4473 has been my correct address. The new DL is exactly the same as the old one, with the exception of the exp date.

 

[bigbaloo95]

Still expired is expired. It shouldn't be accepted. That's not to say some shops won't but they are playing with fire.

 

[Stang51d]

Just out of curiosity, and I ask this because I have never called one in, but does the FFL give the DL exp date when he/she gives the rest of the info?

 

[Tanfodude]

I'm talking about proof of residency as additional beside your gov't ID. I had to show utility billing as proof of residency when I did my purchases.

no has to be goverment issued, on line 20a (the part the gunshop fills out) is says "Identification (e.g. Virginia drivers license (VA DL) or other valid goverment issued photo identification)"

now line 20b says "line 20a may be suplemented by another valid, goverment issued document showing transferee's residence address"

now an old drivers license(from indiana) with a new vehicle registration will work(as long as the registration has the new address) a tax bill would work, your indiana ltch would work, as long as its "state issued"(and shows your current address)and as long as you have a photo id as well(indiana drivers license or indiana id card)

i did use a bartender license once(it had the new address on it) and his drivers license(old address) and the owner of the shop(who was out at the time) said he didnt know if that would be kosher or not, i said "it's state issued"

idk about the cdl, but they confiscate out of state licenses, so if you move to indiana, you have to wait till the hard plastic one comes

 

[shootersix]

I have never been able to keep the hard coppy when renewing.

And shootersix, it wasnt A shop. it was FOUR different shops.

then FOUR shops shouldnt have called in your background checks! the employees didnt read your license, the employees put their bosses (or their) ffl at risk, and when the the atf does their audits, the four ffl holders will have to explain their employees actions.

I'm talking about proof of residency as additional beside your gov't ID. I had to show utility billing as proof of residency when I did my purchases.

wording per the 4473 "line 20a may be suplemented by another valid, goverment issued document showing transferee's residence address" utility bills are not issued by the goverment so no water,gas,sewage, bills will not work

 

[shootersix]

no we dont give that info, but if its expired, we dont proceed with the check,

 

[JetGirl]

No it is not a valid ID for a 4473. If you still have a hard copy of your liscence than you will need that and the paper copy for it to be legal.

This ^. You need both.

You do not keep your hard copy of your license.

Yes, you can... unless it's a CDL, then you have to relinquish it. If that's the case, grab your phone and snap a photo of it.

 

[radar44]

I have seen gun shop employees go into near meltdown when the post office changed the zip code in our area . They couldn't seem to figure out that I was still living in the same house . I lost over an hour on that one .

 

[LoriW]

I was referring to an exp DL with the correct address. Just exp because it is past the exp date. Any address that I have ever put on a 4473 has been my correct address. The new DL is exactly the same as the old one, with the exception of the exp date.

Expired = not valid

Still expired is expired. It shouldn't be accepted. That's not to say some shops won't but they are playing with fire.

exactly. I'd like to see what the ATF would say if they audited said shops

Just out of curiosity, and I ask this because I have never called one in, but does the FFL give the DL exp date when he/she gives the rest of the info?

On every 4473 I ever did as the seller, we put what the ID was (IN DL for example), the number (123-45-6789 whatever) and the expiration date. That way, in case of an ATF audit, we could establish that we saw a valid ID. IF we needed a secondary ID (like if the DL had the wrong address) we also noted what the secondary ID was and any pertinent information about it.

 

[LoriW]

I'm talking about proof of residency as additional beside your gov't ID. I had to show utility billing as proof of residency when I did my purchases.

Per the ATF the ONLY utility bill they accept is a government issued one. So if the City of Avon for example issues the utility bill, we, in theory, could take it. IPS not so much. That was the exact example the ATF agent used. None of my utility bills could be used for a 4473.

 

[17 squirrel]

And those moving back to Indiana from out of state are essentially non-persons for 7-10 business days, since the out-of-state license is surrendered when applying for an Indiana license.

I disagree with that, not more than 3 months ago I became a fulltime Indiana resident and got my Indiana drivers license and I picked up two firearms from different gun stores with the paper license and nothing else.
Neither shop questioned my temp license.

 

[JetGirl]

And those moving back to Indiana from out of state are essentially non-persons for 7-10 business days, since the out-of-state license is surrendered when applying for an Indiana license.

Nope. Not so. If you're a proper person and got your new license with a current address... you're green light. There's no 7-10 (or any other time frame) wait. The only wait at that point is if you get delayed by the feds.