Qualities of a Competition Handgun

[cakelly1962]

My 2 is barrel length. I run 2 steel matches, 1 SCSA "Steel Challenge" at South Central in Freetown and 1 outlaw steel in Bean Blossom during the summer, Both relatively close to you. There is a Steel Challenge in Freetown Saturday, Come over, bring what you have, 3 to 5 magazines, 3 for limited " load them up " or 5 for production " 10 rounds per Magazine " . Come early , help set up and ask questions, I would be glad to give my of info.

 

[cakelly1962]

The 2.0 likes hot rounds, we had some issues at first with it. It runs fine now though.
Since I upgraded the trigger I don't think it counts as production, so far as I understand it.
And yes! I do intend to sign up for the class on Jan 19.

And yes trigger jobs are allowed in production.

 

[jakemartens]

This is a loaded questions, you are always going to get a personal bias of what gear someone else thinks is the best.

You have an M&P 2.0 now with about the only upgrade that gun needs to run in
USPSA Production Division or load the mags up and shoot Limited Division.
You have a handgun that works and that you are very used to, no need to chase gear right now.

Find a match, get a hold of the Match Director, tell them you are new and show up ready to shoot.
There are lots of people that want to make sure they have everything right and figured out before they go, they never seem to make it to a match.

this kid never has fun

 

[Twangbanger]

MUST-HAVES:

1. It has to go bang every time.

2. It has to be easy to manipulate. Mag release / getting the mag back in, etc.

NICE TO HAVES:

3. Triggers are important. You can learn to shoot a crappy one well, but everytime you go back to something nicer, it will strike you how much easier it is to hit with.

4. It should have adjustable sights, but if fixed, just make sure it hits _exactly_ to center. You would be surprised how many people lose points because of not loking after this detail. (If you're shooting steel matches, this alone by itself can easily add 10% or more to your total time).

5. It is always nice if mags are easy to get. (That goes double if/when Joe Biden becomes President). You will use far more mags as a competitor than as a casual owner, and if your favorite gun is an Astra that was discontinued in the 1980s...good luck with that.

6. If you go the revolver route, plan on either becoming an amateur gunsmith, or being real good friends with one. (And make sure you have a reliable source of Federal primers). Most people, including those who like them, far underestimate the amount of fiddling it takes to keep one running reliably, compared to a striker-fired plastic gun.

Your 2.0 should serve you just fine, until you have time to decide what if anything you like better.

 

[jek]

My 2 is barrel length. I run 2 steel matches, 1 SCSA "Steel Challenge" at South Central in Freetown and 1 outlaw steel in Bean Blossom during the summer, Both relatively close to you. There is a Steel Challenge in Freetown Saturday, Come over, bring what you have, 3 to 5 magazines, 3 for limited " load them up " or 5 for production " 10 rounds per Magazine " . Come early , help set up and ask questions, I would be glad to give my of info.

I plan to be there Saturday, it sounds like alot of fun. And I'll always take advice. So long as one can process the information, I don't think it could ever hurt.

This is a loaded questions, you are always going to get a personal bias of what gear someone else thinks is the best.

You have an M&P 2.0 now with about the only upgrade that gun needs to run in
USPSA Production Division or load the mags up and shoot Limited Division.
You have a handgun that works and that you are very used to, no need to chase gear right now.

Find a match, get a hold of the Match Director, tell them you are new and show up ready to shoot.
There are lots of people that want to make sure they have everything right and figured out before they go, they never seem to make it to a match.

this kid never has fun

Good to know that the 2.0's are held in such regard. I'd rarely heard of competitors using them (barring Jerry Miculek). It was always Glocks, 1911's, jframes or CZ's. Or some tricked out gun that costs as much as a small used car.

But chasing gear is half the fun... :P I will need the advice and get a number of matches in before I start chasing flights of fancy.

MUST-HAVES:

1. It has to go bang every time.

2. It has to be easy to manipulate. Mag release / getting the mag back in, etc.

NICE TO HAVES:

3. Triggers are important. You can learn to shoot a crappy one well, but everytime you go back to something nicer, it will strike you how much easier it is to hit with.

4. It should have adjustable sights, but if fixed, just make sure it hits _exactly_ to center. You would be surprised how many people lose points because of not loking after this detail. (If you're shooting steel matches, this alone by itself can easily add 10% or more to your total time).

5. It is always nice if mags are easy to get. (That goes double if/when Joe Biden becomes President). You will use far more mags as a competitor than as a casual owner, and if your favorite gun is an Astra that was discontinued in the 1980s...good luck with that.

6. If you go the revolver route, plan on either becoming an amateur gunsmith, or being real good friends with one. (And make sure you have a reliable source of Federal primers). Most people, including those who like them, far underestimate the amount of fiddling it takes to keep one running reliably, compared to a striker-fired plastic gun.

Your 2.0 should serve you just fine, until you have time to decide what if anything you like better.

Good points on the mags, I'll be sure to keep an eye out. Hopefully can find some on sale over the holidays. They're just bloody expensive normally. I do recognize the cost of the sport I'm looking to get into... But they're still expensive.

I fully agree on the sights, the stock ones were below the POI, and was endlessly frustrating for it.

Also good to know about revolvers. I didn't envision getting into them(less so now) but it's good to know what to expect if I should ever run out of other things to do or buy. Seems crazy, but I know at least one older guy in that situation.

 

[Whip_McCord]

My 2 is barrel length. I run 2 steel matches, 1 SCSA "Steel Challenge" at South Central in Freetown and 1 outlaw steel in Bean Blossom during the summer, Both relatively close to you. There is a Steel Challenge in Freetown Saturday, Come over, bring what you have, 3 to 5 magazines, 3 for limited " load them up " or 5 for production " 10 rounds per Magazine " . Come early , help set up and ask questions, I would be glad to give my of info.

You mentioned barrel length, but did not elaborate. I would like to hear your take on it. Thanks.

 

[cakelly1962]

You mentioned barrel length, but did not elaborate. I would like to hear your take on it. Thanks.

I run outlaw steel at HHRP and see people come with 2" and 3" barreled guns and wonder why they can't hit anything. I feel new shooters should start with a longer sight radius gun to get consistent. I've also seen it at FNS and Steel Challenge matches.

 

[longbeard]

I agree with what jakemartens said (strange to have this feeling). Don't buy anything new or upgrade anything. Tell someone you are coming and they will get you through some competitions. You will see and learn and figure it out from there. People will generally let you shoot their rigs as well if you want to see what something is all about.

 

[Whip_McCord]

I run outlaw steel at HHRP and see people come with 2" and 3" barreled guns and wonder why they can't hit anything. I feel new shooters should start with a longer sight radius gun to get consistent. I've also seen it at FNS and Steel Challenge matches.

OK, I get your point. New shooters tend to shoot too fast anyway. The shorter barrels only make it worse. When I shoot ICORE, I have occasionally shot my 3" S&W 66. A couple other shooters bring snubbies too. Lots of fun. It makes it more challenging. More challenging is not something new shooters need, though.

 

[Grelber]

Top 3 things
1- Reliability
2- Reliability
3- Reliability

The latest or coolest or best feeling gun with the best trigger doesn't mean anything if it doesn't run 100% with your ammo and mags.

Is there a different Bosshoss that just bought the new welfare open gun with the feeding issues and the optics that you are supposed to have 2 backups for?

 

[cakelly1962]

OK, I get your point. New shooters tend to shoot too fast anyway. The shorter barrels only make it worse. When I shoot ICORE, I have occasionally shot my 3" S&W 66. A couple other shooters bring snubbies too. Lots of fun. It makes it more challenging. More challenging is not something new shooters need, though.

Yea if your a seasoned shooter, using a short barrel gun can make it more challenging. I agree 100%.

 

[Bosshoss]

Is there a different Bosshoss that just bought the new welfare open gun with the feeding issues and the optics that you are supposed to have 2 backups for?

Yeah that guy is a idiot.
He likes a challenge and what can be more challenging than taking a perfectly good gun and changing it and the magazines and putting a dot on top of slide and hoping it doesn't come apart bouncing back and forth thousands of times.
After 8 years shooting only revolver I think I earned the right to be a idiot.

 

[Bosshoss]

6. If you go the revolver route, plan on either becoming an amateur gunsmith, or being real good friends with one. (And make sure you have a reliable source of Federal primers). Most people, including those who like them, far underestimate the amount of fiddling it takes to keep one running reliably, compared to a striker-fired plastic gun.

As a revolver shooter and gunsmith I disagree with some of this. Very few guns at a USPSA match have stock triggers and Revolvers triggers should have some love but it isn't necessary just like all the other guns at the match.
Federal primers are not necessary unless you want a really light double action trigger. This apply's to most autoloaders also you start messing with springs in them and they can require federal primers. You want a Revolver that runs on Winchester primers I can do that but the trigger will be a little heavier.
Fiddling???
I pull the side plate usually 1 time during the season to clean the internals. Run a brush through the chambers after every match and a couple drops of oil and that is it.
I started shooting Carry Optics a couple months ago to play with something different and I'm still playing with the setup but I have had more malfunctions in two months than the last eight years shooting revolvers.
That being said Revolver isn't for everyone as it is a very different skill set than a autoloader and it is a unique challenge. It is a very different game shooting revolver in USPSA.

 

[jek]

As a revolver shooter and gunsmith I disagree with some of this. Very few guns at a USPSA match have stock triggers and Revolvers triggers should have some love but it isn't necessary just like all the other guns at the match.
Federal primers are not necessary unless you want a really light double action trigger. This apply's to most autoloaders also you start messing with springs in them and they can require federal primers. You want a Revolver that runs on Winchester primers I can do that but the trigger will be a little heavier.
Fiddling???
I pull the side plate usually 1 time during the season to clean the internals. Run a brush through the chambers after every match and a couple drops of oil and that is it.
I started shooting Carry Optics a couple months ago to play with something different and I'm still playing with the setup but I have had more malfunctions in two months than the last eight years shooting revolvers.
That being said Revolver isn't for everyone as it is a very different skill set than a autoloader and it is a unique challenge. It is a very different game shooting revolver in USPSA.

You mentioned is a very different set of skills, I'm curious how you mean? Reloading is obviously mechanically different, but is there much more? I rarely shoot revolvers, let alone in an action pistol setting.

 

[shootersix]

not gun related, but hope this helps...dont get discouraged!!!!!!

my first steel challenge match i walked in with my p226 legion thinking just give me the trophy now...and i got my ass handed to me! (43rd out of 45 shooters!) but that was november 2017, on Saturday I shot again and was 4th out of 59 (with my rfro)

and the 3 best pieces of advice I can give you (I doesn't matter what gun you shoot) are

1 practice
2 practice
3 practice

you think max michelle shoots only at the matches???, dry fire and live fire will help you! practice reloading and your draw! know your rig! know where you sights are, get used to speed reloads and jam clearing! (it WILL happen, and it will happen on your best run!)...I was in bay 3 on sunday at our steel match and in think they heard my dammit in the clubhouse (luckily it was my throw away string)

 

[Bosshoss]

You mentioned is a very different set of skills, I'm curious how you mean? Reloading is obviously mechanically different, but is there much more? I rarely shoot revolvers, let alone in an action pistol setting.

Many differences including the reloading you mentioned. The reloading has twice as many steps(twice as many chances for something to go wrong) and takes twice as long to do.
Revolvers triggers have about a half inch travel and have a heaver pull weight than the autos. The time between shots will be slower(depending on the shooter) due to this.
Some struggle with accuracy with the longer and heavier trigger pull but once you get used to it you can use that to your advantage. Practice, practice, practice.

The biggest difference in revolver vs auto in a match is the way you shoot the stage.
Revolver in USPSA is pretty much a 8 shot ruled game which means minor scoring. Minor scoring swings the needle back toward accuracy some and not just speed. Yes you still need to be as quick as you can but you can't give up accuracy to do so IMO.
The biggest thing with revolver is the limited capacity. Most stages have some version of 8 shot arrays and with 8 in the gun you have no extra shots. A auto with extra rounds can push the speed knowing they can make up shots if needed. Revolver you need to make sure you don't miss as you then have to do a reload or just take the miss.
Stage planning is also really different with a revolver.
When I break a stage down for revolver I figure where I'll do my reloads and what targets I'll shoot from where(sometimes vastly different place than I would shoot them with a auto) then I do a backup plan in case I miss a piece of steel or something else goes wrong. I usually have a couple of backup plans so a lot to remember and hoping I don't even need them and if I do implementing them seamlessly.
Since Shooting Carry Optics some I figure it takes me about 25% of the time and effort to get a stage plan and remember it vs my Revolver.

I personally enjoy the mechanical aspect of shooting Revolver and the challenge of stage breakdown and find it keeps me focused better.
The auto are easier to shoot and deal with. There is a reason Revolver is the smallest division it takes some time to develop the skills to do well with it and it is more work than a autoloader.

It is not for everyone but those that shoot revolver are usually the one smiling the most at a match .
I always find it interesting that the ones that recommend staying away from or make fun of shooting a revolver have NEVER even tried it in competition.


Another thing is because of the extra things involved with shooting a revolver your placing in the match will be lower than a auto shooter. Some shooters ego can't take that.
I switched to Carry Optics a couple of months ago and I hadn't shot a auto in competition in 8 years even with malfunctions and learning a new platform, my overall match finishes went up 15/20%.

 

[Trapper Jim]

.

It is not for everyone but those that shoot revolver are usually the one smiling the most at a match .
I always find it interesting that the ones that recommend staying away from or make fun of shooting a revolver have NEVER even tried it in competition.


Another thing is because of the extra things involved with shooting a revolver your placing in the match will be lower than a auto shooter. Some shooters ego can't take that.
I switched to Carry Optics a couple of months ago and I hadn't shot a auto in competition in 8 years even with malfunctions and learning a new platform, my overall match finishes went up 15/20%.[/QUOTE]


yes to this. Not everyone troubles themselves to shoot everything.

 

[rvb]

1 reliability
2 reliability
3 reliability
4 ability to install GOOD sights
5 accuracy
6 ergonomics and how it “feels” and all that other crap that doesn’t really matter

if you have a gun, take it to a few matches and shoot. Once you get a feel for what division you’d like to settle in, then look at common guns in that division. But the gun is the least important part of shooting well, ESPECIALLY when you are starting out.

parabellum does intro courses and new shooter matches, Atlanta club is doing some intro courses, Ft Wayne will be doing a clinic at the end of March. All perfect opportunities to get started. If you already have a pistol, DONT go buying another until you’ve actually participated.

-rvb

 

[rvb]

this kid never has fun

 

[jek]

1 reliability
2 reliability
3 reliability
4 ability to install GOOD sights
5 accuracy
6 ergonomics and how it “feels” and all that other crap that doesn’t really matter

if you have a gun, take it to a few matches and shoot. Once you get a feel for what division you’d like to settle in, then look at common guns in that division. But the gun is the least important part of shooting well, ESPECIALLY when you are starting out.

parabellum does intro courses and new shooter matches, Atlanta club is doing some intro courses, Ft Wayne will be doing a clinic at the end of March. All perfect opportunities to get started. If you already have a pistol, DONT go buying another until you’ve actually participated.

-rvb

What defines a good sight vs a bad sight? Beyond staying in place and not walking of course.