Question about AR15 pistols

[EPD1102]

If I bought an AR15 stripped lower and decided to build an AR15 pistol with it, do I need to mark the lower in any way to designate that it's a pistol? A shooting buddy said I had to engrave it as a pistol because it's not legal to switch a lower back and forth from a pistol to a rifle. I mentioned that my Thompson-Center Encore isn't engraved as a pistol and I'm allowed to convert it back and forth. I tried looking on the ATF website and I can't find an answer. Thanks

 

[jd4320t]

No since it started as a stripped lower. I believe if it started life as a pistol then it can't become a rifle.

 

[rkwhyte2]

No since it started as a stripped lower. I believe if it started life as a pistol then it can't become a rifle.

If it started life as a rifle it can't be made into a pistol but you can turn a pistol into a rifle.

 

[M67]

I mentioned that my Thompson-Center Encore isn't engraved as a pistol and I'm allowed to convert it back and forth.

As far as I know, they stopped allowing people to do that last year. Rifle has to stay a rifle, pistol has to stay a pistol.

 

[EPD1102]

No since it started as a stripped lower. I believe if it started life as a pistol then it can't become a rifle.

How does that work for guns like a Thompson-Center Encore then? Aren't you allowed to convert them back and forth from pistol to rifle to shotgun to muzzleloader, etc.? Thanks Again

 

[EPD1102]

As far as I know, they stopped allowing people to do that last year. Rifle has to stay a rifle, pistol has to stay a pistol.

Okay. Am I right that this is probably a federal law? I've never seen this in the state law books. Any idea where I could find this to confirm? The ATF web site is not easy to search.

 

[jwh20]

If it started life as a rifle it can't be made into a pistol but you can turn a pistol into a rifle.

I guess that's the part I don't understand. (No fault of yours, this underscores the absurdity of the current state of firearms law.)

It didn't start its life as a fire or a pistol. Being an AR-lower it started out as a LOWER. By the bizarre laws in effect a stripped lower is a "firearm" even though it's nothing but an inoperable piece of alloy. About the worst you could do it beat someone in the head with it.

But if I buy a lower, it's a "firearm" and I have to complete the ATF form and have a BG check. Ok, but it a lower before I buy it and it's a lower AFTER I buy it. When does it become a rifle or a pistol? And WHO KNOWS that it's one or the other? I assemble it into a rifle, now it's a rifle. I take the stock off to clean it. Is it now a pistol and I'm a lawbreaker?

There is no documentation, no database, to proof that my lower is anything but a lower.

About the only scenario that I can see that would be illegal would be if I assembled it into an AR pistol with a SHORT BARREL. That's fine, no NFA issues since pistols can have short barrels. But if I take that pistol and put a stock over the buffer tube, now I've magically (and ILLEGALLY) created an SBR and doing so without a tax stamp is against the law. Stupid but at least it's clearly illegal.

If there is actually some ATF ruling on this, I'd like to see a reference to it.

 

[mvician]

http://www.atf.gov/files/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2011-4.pdf



http://youtu.be/xnONj6rXpNg

 

[EPD1102]

http://www.atf.gov/files/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2011-4.pdf

In my continued searching, I just found that same link and was getting ready to post it so I say "Thank You". From the way that I read that information, it is legal to convert a pistol to a rifle to a pistol etc. Am I reading it correctly? Sometimes, I get confused with legal decisions until they boil them down to where a simple man like myself can understand them.

 

[mvician]

Built first as a pistol it can be built into a rifle and then back again to a pistol.

 

[EPD1102]

Built first as a pistol it can be built into a rifle and then back again to a pistol.

Great. I've been re-reading this and that was what I was getting from it. I'm planning to keep it as a pistol but I'm going to save copies of these court decisions and such just in case I ever change my mind.
Thanks Again

 

[neeltburn]

It was my understanding as that it can be build into a pistol only if it was sold as a receiver. IF when you bought it, it was sold ( transferred) on the form as a rifle or pistol then that is what is had to be forever. But if it was done as a receiver then you are good to go either way. I figured when I am ready to do a AR Pistol then Id just do it off a pistol lower it should avoid the question. Just my .02s

 

[mvician]

For years now a stripped lower receiver is to be marked as "other" on the 4473. Same as you have to be 21 years old now to buy a stripped lower since it can be built into a "pistol".

 

[EPD1102]

mvician, you seem to be pretty familiar with this so please tell me if I'm reading these court cases right and if I understand this correctly.
You can take a stripped lower and build it into a pistol, switch it to a rifle, and transfer it back to a pistol again.
You can buy a pistol and change it to a rifle and back to a pistol.
But, if you bought it as a rifle, it has to stay a rifle.
Is that the way you understand it?

 

[mvician]

Correct, if it was originally a rifle, it is always a rifle.

If you buy a complete lower that has a stock on it, it is a rifle.

With the new ruling, the stripped lower is a "other", it is neither a pistol or a rifle since it can be built into both.

So if you build your stripped lower into a pistol first, you can now change it into a rifle, and then back to a pistol if you choose to.