Question about home defense and play time...

[daddymikey1975]

I'm interested in sorting the 'order of importance' for my next to get (before I lose them) gun list. I really want an AR-15 but am also interested in a 12ga. Primary use would be home defense but I want some fun factor and added utility in a SHTF scecnario.

A good friend of mine hunts. He said he uses a 12ga for hunting some things as well as home defense. He also said "an AR-15 under the bed would stop an intruder as well" followed by an evil full belly laugh LOL

I have 5 children at home and must prioritize my addiction to purchasing guns. My wife is sick of me taking them boating with me because I end up losing them. Would an AR be beneficial or a 12ga given the circumstances ?

My older 2 boys have mentioned an interest in hunting. I have never been but certainly wouldn't mind trying it out, but then again, there is another investment in gear involved to take up that hobby as well LOL

Any advice ?

 

[lovemachine]

What's your price range?

A 12 gauge is the ultimate SHTF survival gun. Lots of uses for it. Plus it's cheap.

AR15 is the ultimate fun Lego gun for adults. And it's expensive.

IMO, everyone should have both. But if you're wanting to hunt as well, I'd go with the 12 gauge....Then get an AR15

 

[lucky4034]

Given the fact that you have a large family... my recommendation is that Home Defense = priority #1 and play time a distant 2nd.

With that said... it looks like for Play Time... either will suit you fine considering you are considering hunting with your shotgun.

For defense... Knowing you have so many kin living in the home, I would recommend that you take Over-penetration into consideration. A 5.56 round fired out of an AR is going to breach just about anything that isn't concrete and just keep on going. Firing one of those in a house full of people in any direction would not be wise. Should you miss the bad guy, Its going to penetrate 2-3 walls and potentially into someone you love. I would eliminate the AR-15 off the bat....

With the 12g you have to be selective in your ammo choices for that very same reason. There are a multitude of threads here debating Over-Penetration for home defense... I'd recommend you search for them and start there.

 

[cwillour]

For HD, I would consider a pistol or carbine/short rifle (<=18" barrel) over any full-size rifle (barrel > 18") or shotgun. Ammo choice is key, but there are good options with either weapon.

For SHTF, I'd rather have a good .22 rifle than a 12ga. More range than shot, significantly less weight per rd, and less noise. But that's just me.

If the boys are old enough to handle reloading, you could start w/ a 5.56 AR and work towards building a .458 upper. That way you could hunt varmint and predators to start, and move to deer once the .458 upper is built.

 

[Eskion]

Given the fact that you have a large family... my recommendation is that Home Defense = priority #1 and play time a distant 2nd.

With that said... it looks like for Play Time... either will suit you fine considering you are considering hunting with your shotgun.

For defense... Knowing you have so many kin living in the home, I would recommend that you take Over-penetration into consideration. A 5.56 round fired out of an AR is going to breach just about anything that isn't concrete and just keep on going. Firing one of those in a house full of people in any direction would not be wise. Should you miss the bad guy, Its going to penetrate 2-3 walls and potentially into someone you love. I would eliminate the AR-15 off the bat....

With the 12g you have to be selective in your ammo choices for that very same reason. There are a multitude of threads here debating Over-Penetration for home defense... I'd recommend you search for them and start there.

You forgot to mention one other thing. It could possibly go through your walls, and into neighboring houses. You don't like your neighbors right?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

A quality pump 12g shotgun is one of the cornerstones of a gun collection. Mossberg or Remington is the usual, but they aren't the only ones. I'd stick with those two because barrels are common and inexpensive, as are chokes. You can get scoped slug barrels for hunting, long and short shot barrels for various uses (from goose hunting to home defense). Shells range from bird shot to buck shot to slugs, low recoil to magnum.

 

[cwillour]

You forgot to mention one other thing. It could possibly go through your walls, and into neighboring houses. You don't like your neighbors right?

While I hardly consider G&A to be a definitive source on terminal ballistics, I have been seeing a number of reports / studies that have similar conclusions:

Is .223 the Best Home Defense Caliber? - Guns & Ammo

And here is demo by Rob Pincus on shotgun wall penetration:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFd-PJV6Fhc"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFd-PJV6Fhc[/ame]

I know DownRange.tv used to have a video by Rob comparing 9mm, .223, and 12ga penetration but it will not work for me (here is my link: THE BEST DEFENSE - on the Outdoor Channel if somebody has an updated link, could you please let us know.)

When I combine the penetration and spread risks of 00 with the length of the rifle (for handling) and my (relatively slow) rate of accurate fire, I do not see how a 12ga comes out as a top choice. Others will obviously have differing opinions, of course.

 

[daddymikey1975]

For HD, I would consider a pistol or carbine/short rifle (<=18" barrel) over any full-size rifle (barrel > 18") or shotgun. Ammo choice is key, but there are good options with either weapon.

For SHTF, I'd rather have a good .22 rifle than a 12ga. More range than shot, significantly less weight per rd, and less noise. But that's just me.

If the boys are old enough to handle reloading, you could start w/ a 5.56 AR and work towards building a .458 upper. That way you could hunt varmint and predators to start, and move to deer once the .458 upper is built.

I have a 9mm pistol and a .22 rifle (GSG-522) already but was curious if I should get a 12ga or AR as my next long gun lol
I definitely like the Lego for adults that the at would bring but want to Kelly my priorities in order lol

Sometimes being responsible sucks hahahah

 

[xxkornxx56]

Wait your wife is sick of you losing guns? or your kids?

 

[daddymikey1975]

Wait your wife is sick of you losing guns? or your kids?

losing guns

 

[Fireman85]

As much as I am a Remington if you are wanting a home defense gun I would look at the 12 ga mossburg 500 due to the cheap changes possible to make it what you want.

 

[CitiusFortius]

Theres nothing more fun to do than to shoot clays imo. If its fun factor, go shotty. I love my AR, but sometimes shooting paper can get dull.

 

[daddymikey1975]

As much as I am a Remington if you are wanting a home defense gun I would look at the 12 ga mossburg 500 due to the cheap changes possible to make it what you want.

I was actually checking out the 6 shot Maverick 88. Same thing (almost) as the 500 and lots of aftermarket stuff for it as well.

I have a 'thing' against Midwest and refuse to buy a gun from them and wen to wal mart to get it, but it was the 28" barrel version. I want a shorter barrel for some reason LOL.

Will keep you all updated.

 

[Movealongmovealong]

I was actually checking out the 6 shot Maverick 88. Same thing (almost) as the 500 and lots of aftermarket stuff for it as well.

I have a 'thing' against Midwest and refuse to buy a gun from them and wen to wal mart to get it, but it was the 28" barrel version. I want a shorter barrel for some reason LOL.

Will keep you all updated.

I got the 8 shot (actually reliably holds 8+1....) Mav 88 Security from cheaperthandirt maybe a month ago for under 200. You can also get other barrels and tons of accessories for it. It was cheaper than buying it locally, by avoid state sales tax, cheap shipping, lack of gas/time cost driving around, and a good local shop here with cheap transfers.

I'm not interested in thinking about doing a reload in a HD situation with a shotgun, so I wanted more round count in the mag and a basic, clean setup. The money saved went into a cheap tri-rail and a bright point light setup.

If you are concerned about over-penetration (as I am), then my suggestion is #8 birdshot, 2.75 inch shells, low brass/standard power target loads.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C29mEJFFIvo&feature=plcp"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C29mEJFFIvo&feature=plcp[/ame]


With the extra capacity of the 8 (errr... 9) shot, I can also do a stacked loading so there will be 3 or 4 rounds of birdshot to start with, and after that several heavier loads (haven't quite decided on this yet, but probably a 3 inch #5 high-power turkey load).

 

[VERT]

Most people already know my opinion. Three guns everyone should own. A good shotgun, a 22 rimfire and a good handgun. Just these three will cover 90% of a gun owners needs. You already have 2 of those.

With a shotgun you can hunt, defend your home or shoot clays with your kids
Fun and practical. Two good choices are the Remington 870 or Mossberg 500. I would recommend a 26"-28" field barrel with choke tubes and an 18" defense barrel. Swap the barrel and you go from hunting to HD.

 

[VERT]

I was actually checking out the 6 shot Maverick 88. Same thing (almost) as the 500 and lots of aftermarket stuff for it as well.

I have a 'thing' against Midwest and refuse to buy a gun from them and wen to wal mart to get it, but it was the 28" barrel version. I want a shorter barrel for some reason LOL.

Will keep you all updated.

I think the Maverick 88 will accept the Mossberg 500 barrels. You can get a short defense barrel for about $100. The 88 is similar to the 500, but made in Mexico. Personally I would spend the extra $50 for a Mossberg with wood stock.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I have a 9mm pistol and a .22 rifle (GSG-522) already but was curious if I should get a 12ga or AR as my next long gun lol
I definitely like the Lego for adults that the at would bring but want to Kelly my priorities in order lol

Sometimes being responsible sucks hahahah

You can play lego with a Mossberg or Remington shotgun, too, although not to the extent you can go Teddy Tactical on an AR.

Different barrels, flashlight foregrip, pistol grip stock, ammo carriers, sling, extended tube, folding stock, etc. etc.

I've got one Mossberg 500 with three barrels (slug with cantilever scope mount, long ported turkey barrel, short regular shot barrel with screw in chokes and a collection of chokes). Its like having a golf bag in one club with just a few seconds of adjustment.

 

[vtxrecruiter]

For defense... Knowing you have so many kin living in the home, I would recommend that you take Over-penetration into consideration. A 5.56 round fired out of an AR is going to breach just about anything that isn't concrete and just keep on going. Firing one of those in a house full of people in any direction would not be wise. Should you miss the bad guy, Its going to penetrate 2-3 walls and potentially into someone you love. I would eliminate the AR-15 off the bat....

WRONG. Sorry, but this is an example of continuing to re-tell misinformation. There are MULTIPLE things to consider in caliber choice viv-a-vis penetration, but to boil it all down. .223/5.56 Nato with the CORRECT BULLET ( meant to RAPIDLY break up- "explode") will penetrate LESS drywall than a 12Ga shotgun with buckshot (any useful size pellets for home defense). This has been proven several times over. Look it up. What gets through the walls is mainly fragments. There are even frangible rounds designed to revert to powder upon hitting anything solid. Frangibles are not the greatest man stoppers, but with their velocity and tendancy to break up instantly, they are more effective than most handgun bullets and nearly any shotgun load. And before someone says to use birdshot remember this, birdshot is also PROVEN to be a HORRIBLE human stopper. Look it up. Bottom line- If Home Defense is priority 1 and all other concerns are less- Get the AR-15, buy the CORRECT defense ammo, and get some training.
I would also reccomend NOT getting a handgun as your primary home defense weapon if you are a novice, handguns are not easy things to shoot WELL in a dark house, under duress, while trying to illuminate your target and track whereabouts of loved ones. Handguns actually suck at stopping bad guys COMPARED to rifles. Hanguns poke holes, rifles cavitate tissue while poking holes. It's a velocity thing. You are also more apt to be able to hit with a rifle just due to body position and "natural point of aim".

 

[chezuki]

If you are concerned about over-penetration (as I am), then my suggestion is #8 birdshot, 2.75 inch shells, low brass/standard power target loads.

Oh dear God, not this again…