Question about state issued ID card for a gun purchase.

[TiMMaY]

I'm going to ask this question of our INGO armchair lawyers, but let me preface my question by stating my intent is not to pick on the gun shop for this. While visiting a very gun shop in Indianapolis today I saw several signs in the store that stated they would not except a state issued ID card as a valid form of ID for the purchase of a firearm. So my question is, does a valid state issued ID card not establish an individuals identity the same as a valid state issued drivers license? If I am not mistaken, both the drivers license and the ID card are issued by the BMV and require the same documents to establish your identity and residency before the card is issued. I am open to the possibility that it's the gun shops preference to only accept a drivers license, but I am just wondering.

 

[citizenkane]

That is just the shop's store policy. There is a story behind it but I cannot remember what it is.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

There is a story behind it but I cannot remember what it is.

A murder in Chicago with an AK style carbine purchased at a well-known Indianapolis gun store. The gun store did nothing illegal.

 

[SSGSAD]

That is just the shop's store policy. There is a story behind it but I cannot remember what it is.

Fake id, IIRC .....

 

[mrortega]

The form 4473 requires a valid picture ID issued by a government entity. Normally the driver's license suffices. However dealers are allowed to accept additional documents if the DL doesn't have the address that the customer lists on page one. This can be a vehicle registration, even a water craft, as long as it matches the address. In effect then as long as the document/documents have a picture, birth date, document expiration date which has not passed and correct address you are good.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Fake id, IIRC .....

Weeks's state ID was authentic.

 

[Kutnupe14]

The story, lots of bad/irresponsible guys have their DLs revoked or suspended, and get an ID to establish identity. I would bet the policy is a tad bit related to that belief.

 

[Thegeek]

What about someone who can't get a DL for a valid reason? Why deny them a firearm?

 

[pute62]

What about someone who can't get a DL for a valid reason? Why deny them a firearm?

They may figure,if you can't be responsible enough to have a DL,you're not a proper person.

 

[Thegeek]

I was referring to something more along the medical lines....

 

[Mgderf]

They may figure,if you can't be responsible enough to have a DL,you're not a proper person.

That is NOT their determination to make.

 

[Seancass]

I was under the impression that is was Completely up to the salesman. As in, if you look like a bad man, they are free to show you the door, ID or no ID.

No?

 

[Mgderf]

I was under the impression that is was Completely up to the salesman. As in, if you look like a bad man, they are free to show you the door, ID or no ID.

No?

What I meant was it is not the salesperson who determines what I.D. is acceptable "by law".
That doesn't mean to say that some stores will have their own rules.

A person may be ineligible to obgtain a drivers license because of a medical issue like uncontrolled diabetes.
This affliction would have no LEGAL bearing on their obtaining a firearm.
A store refusing a state-issued I.CD. that meets the state criteria should not be able to refuse a sale on that alone.

 

[ModernGunner]

Hell, just head to a different gun shop. It's not like they're exactly 'rare' in the Hoosier State, LOL!

The State ID is the equivalent to the Indiana Driver's License, for those people who do not drive (for whatever reason). It's as legitimate as any DL. If some gun shop doesn't want to accept it, that's their problem and their loss of business.

JMO, but if we're going to post on the actions or inactions of some business, that business should be named. In this case, if they're unwilling to accept a legitimate State ID, then they don't need my 'crummy' DL either, nor my business.

 

[Jeremy1066]

Are gun shops required to sell firearms to legally qualified individuals? I don't think they are. It may not be good for business, but I don't think it's required.

 

[ryknoll3]

What I meant was it is not the salesperson who determines what I.D. is acceptable "by law".
That doesn't mean to say that some stores will have their own rules.

A person may be ineligible to obgtain a drivers license because of a medical issue like uncontrolled diabetes.
This affliction would have no LEGAL bearing on their obtaining a firearm.
A store refusing a state-issued I.CD. that meets the state criteria should not be able to refuse a sale on that alone.

Are gun shops required to sell firearms to legally qualified individuals? I don't think they are. It may not be good for business, but I don't think it's required.

No, they're not. They're also allowed to not sell a gun to someone who's background check never came back "proceed" but the time has elapsed.

I think a business should have a right to refuse to do business with anyone for any reason at any time. I don't think there should be a law that they HAVE to accept this or that. That said, that business' name should be known and the gun community should make it known that they will not do business with them while they hold that policy. I think a business owner should have a right to refuse those with a state I.D., but I don't think as a practice they should make it their business to try to judge the character of a person and the suitability for firearms ownership based on what kind of ID they present.

A gun shop (or any store for that matter) can legally refuse to deal with anyone, so long as the reason isn't because the customer is a member of a "protected class," like race, gender, age, color, etc...

 

[mrortega]

I was told when I was trained that I had the final say on whether I would do a sale or not. A salesperson has to be generally aware of any potential problems in doing a sale. For example, a customer comes in with tears in his eyes and says his wife just left him and wants to buy a gun I would say no. A couple weeks ago I had a customer who smelled of pot. I had a pretty bad head cold and asked another salesman to come over and get close to the guy. He walked behind him and made a sign that the guy reeked of it. I simply told the man that I had the final word and would not make the sale. He left quietly. I've also smelled alcohol on people and watched them carefully for signs of impairment. Since liquor gets into the blood stream and makes its way to the lungs you can smell it in the air around them even the next day. If they have no problem carrying on a conversation or filling out the 4473 I will do the sale.

With all that said I think it's pretty clear if a salesperson refuses a sale strictly on race, gender or ethnicity he/she would have a problem.

 

[Mgderf]

I was told when I was trained that I had the final say on whether I would do a sale or not. A salesperson has to be generally aware of any potential problems in doing a sale. For example, a customer comes in with tears in his eyes and says his wife just left him and wants to buy a gun I would say no. A couple weeks ago I had a customer who smelled of pot. I had a pretty bad head cold and asked another salesman to come over and get close to the guy. He walked behind him and made a sign that the guy reeked of it. I simply told the man that I had the final word and would not make the sale. He left quietly. I've also smelled alcohol on people and watched them carefully for signs of impairment. Since liquor gets into the blood stream and makes its way to the lungs you can smell it in the air around them even the next day. If they have no problem carrying on a conversation or filling out the 4473 I will do the sale.

With all that said I think it's pretty clear if a salesperson refuses a sale strictly on race, gender or ethnicity he/she would have a problem.

So, you wouldn't have a problem with a clerk that refused to sell you a firearm solely on the basis that "he/she did not like your I.D."?

 

[mrortega]

So, you wouldn't have a problem with a clerk that refused to sell you a firearm solely on the basis that "he/she did not like your I.D."?

It would be frustrating. I would ask to see the manager or owner and ask them if they agree. If they wouldn't make the sale I wouldn't go back. There are other stores that would do the sale. There are always going to be cases where the clerk may lack proper training and is being super cautious. Most people present their driver's license. If a relatively inexperienced clerk sees something strange to them they may err on the side of caution. You wouldn't believe the amount of fear you get instilled in you about making a mistake on a sale. "Try to get an upper floor cell in Michigan city so you can see the lake." My favorite was a bar of Lava (ouch) soap that my assistant manager handed me one day. It had a piece of heavy yarn going through a hole he drilled in it. He said it would come in handy in prison so I wouldn't drop it (double ouch.) After that every time someone got close to screwing up someone would hand him the bar of Lava.

But seriously, doing a gun sale is a lot like target shooting. You'd better be absolutely sure of your back stop before you pull the trigger. It might look safe and clear but it's up to you to be damn sure.