Question for the CZ fanboys......or anyone else

[snowwalker]

Hammer let down by hand.
They have "D" models that have a decocker.
And, yes, it can be carried cocked and locked (a la 1911 style), or carried hammer down, which gives a tougher pull for 1st shot (think Sig DA/SA)

Just trying to understand. Some complain about the Glock in that you have to pull the trigger to fieldstrip and that is unsafe, but the gun pictured or a 1911 (never seen one with a decocker) you have to pull the trigger and let the hammer down by hand. I don't see one way different than the other?

 

[throttletony]

I was talking about carrying, not necessarily field stripping.
For a standard CZ75
For carrying your options are:
1) cocked and locked, like a 1911 in cond 1.
2) loaded, and then carefully let the hammer down by hand (yes, that means pulling the trigger woth a loaded chamber - this has been done in competition for years).

Knowing that not everyone would like this, they started offering "D" models that have a decocker instead of a standard safety.
Go look at a cz 75 sp-01. vs a CZ 75 sp-01 tactical (which had a decocker instead of a regular 1911-style safety)
Same with cz75b models vs cz75d models

 

[Kephas78]

Exactly right. I don't carry this gun, but if I did, it would be condition 1 with the hammer back and safety on, just like a 1911. I don't know why anyone would consider that any less safe than a striker fired gun with no safety, like a Glock or M&P...

I don't like carrying condition 1 because I haven't conditioned myself to manipulate the safety as part of my draw. I just don't want to take the chance that under stress I won't remember and won't be able to figure out why "gun no go bang".

There are compromises no matter which way you go. As individuals we just need to be aware of strengths and weaknesses of our EDC equipment(and ourselves) and train to minimize the weak points and maximize the strengths.

 

[snowwalker]

I don't like carrying condition 1 because I haven't conditioned myself to manipulate the safety as part of my draw. I just don't want to take the chance that under stress I won't remember and won't be able to figure out why "gun no go bang".

There are compromises no matter which way you go. As individuals we just need to be aware of strengths and weaknesses of our EDC equipment(and ourselves) and train to minimize the weak points and maximize the strengths.

That I agree with. I was at Bradis last week and look at some CZs and my biggest dislike is the height of the slide. I have a Tanfoglio that has a slide like that and have shot it some, but can't get used to the slide. All my other autos have a slide like Glock, S&W, Beretta, and Walther. CZ is not a bad gun, on the contrary a very fine pistol, just not for me. My weakness I guess, but I want to keep my training on a familiar platform.

 

[Kephas78]

Well....
You could carry a CZ 75 several different ways(conditions). There are positives and negatives to each.

condition 0: Loaded chamber, hammer cocked, safety off, full magazine
This is your greatest level of readiness as it requires the least action on the user's part to discharge the firearm. The user doesn't have to turn off the safety and the cocked hammer means there is a significantly lighter and shorter trigger pull(than DA) needed to initiate a discharge. There is an increased chance of unintentional discharge dependent upon the pull weight of the trigger.

condition 1: Loaded chamber, hammer cocked, safety on, full magazine
Often called "cocked and locked". This requires the user to turn off the safety before the firearm can be discharged, but once that is done again the cocked hammer means a significantly lighter and shorter trigger pull(than DA). The downside is that there is the extra step of turning off the safety. This added step could add to the time it takes to ready the firearm, and could cause significant problems in a high stress situation.

condition 2: Loaded chamber, hammer down, safety off(or absent), full magazine
This requires the user to either cock the hammer back, or use a heavier and longer trigger pull. It would take extra time to cock the hammer back, and the longer heavier trigger can result in an inaccurate first shot.

condition 3: Loaded chamber, hammer down, safety off(or absent), full magazine
This is sometimes called "Israeli carry". This requires the user to rack the slide(which chambers a round) after which it is in condition 0. It takes extra time to rack the slide and again can cause significant problems in high stress situations.

condition 4: Loaded chamber, hammer down, safety off(or absent), magazine removed
Requires the user to insert a loaded magazine after which it is in condition 3.

Condition 4 should only be used when it is legally required. Otherwise, it's all about personal preference. The downsides of each can be minimized through training.

 

[Kephas78]

That I agree with. I was at Bradis last week and look at some CZs and my biggest dislike is the height of the slide. I have a Tanfoglio that has a slide like that and have shot it some, but can't get used to the slide. All my other autos have a slide like Glock, S&W, Beretta, and Walther. CZ is not a bad gun, on the contrary a very fine pistol, just not for me. My weakness I guess, but I want to keep my training on a familiar platform.

Completely understandable. My first handguns were all revolvers so I tend to prefer a nice DA/SA semi auto as they have a lot in common. Striker fired guns tend to annoy me.

Bottom line.. ESPECIALLY when it comes to a carry gun, carry what you like to shoot. Generally, you are a better shooter and better prepared with the gun that you like to shoot(reliability issues aside).

 

[wtburnette]

I don't like carrying condition 1 because I haven't conditioned myself to manipulate the safety as part of my draw. I just don't want to take the chance that under stress I won't remember and won't be able to figure out why "gun no go bang".

There are compromises no matter which way you go. As individuals we just need to be aware of strengths and weaknesses of our EDC equipment(and ourselves) and train to minimize the weak points and maximize the strengths.

Only issue with a manual safety is practicing with it. When you get the muscle memory down, it becomes second nature and you don't have to worry about not deactivating it when you need to. Something that helps, at least for me, is to ride the safety. Since the way I grip is to ride my thumb on top of the safety, I'm automatically disengaging the safety when getting a proper grip. Works best for guns with large safeties, like 1911's (or my Sig P226 Legion SAO). I ride the safety on both of my CZ's when I shoot them, but again, I don't carry either of them.

 

[Birds Away]

I think there are some errors in those conditions of readiness. But, I do agree that you should carry what you shoot best.

 

[88E30M50]

I have no problem with carrying a 1911 in condition 1 since any of my carry 1911s has a nice big safety that I've got the muscle memory down to drop it on the draw. I don't trust myself to do that with my CZs though since the safety sits in a different place and is generally much smaller. The nice thing is, the DA pull on a CZ is so good once tuned, I am not losing anything in terms of trigger pull to carry a CZ decocked to the halfcock notch.

 

[Birds Away]

I have no problem with carrying a 1911 in condition 1 since any of my carry 1911s has a nice big safety that I've got the muscle memory down to drop it on the draw. I don't trust myself to do that with my CZs though since the safety sits in a different place and is generally much smaller. The nice thing is, the DA pull on a CZ is so good once tuned, I am not losing anything in terms of trigger pull to carry a CZ decocked to the halfcock notch.

 

[patience0830]

What happened to condition "Butterscotch" ?

 

[Birds Away]

What happened to condition "Butterscotch" ?

It's tough getting that adhesive off your forehead.

 

[throttletony]

Well....
You could carry a CZ 75 several different ways(conditions). There are positives and negatives to each.

condition 0: Loaded chamber, hammer cocked, safety off, full magazine
This is your greatest level of readiness as it requires the least action on the user's part to discharge the firearm. The user doesn't have to turn off the safety and the cocked hammer means there is a significantly lighter and shorter trigger pull(than DA) needed to initiate a discharge. There is an increased chance of unintentional discharge dependent upon the pull weight of the trigger.

condition 1: Loaded chamber, hammer cocked, safety on, full magazine
Often called "cocked and locked". This requires the user to turn off the safety before the firearm can be discharged, but once that is done again the cocked hammer means a significantly lighter and shorter trigger pull(than DA). The downside is that there is the extra step of turning off the safety. This added step could add to the time it takes to ready the firearm, and could cause significant problems in a high stress situation.

condition 2: Loaded chamber, hammer down, safety off(or absent), full magazine
This requires the user to either cock the hammer back, or use a heavier and longer trigger pull. It would take extra time to cock the hammer back, and the longer heavier trigger can result in an inaccurate first shot.

condition 3: UNLOADED chamber, hammer down, safety off(or absent), full magazine
This is sometimes called "Israeli carry". This requires the user to rack the slide(which chambers a round) after which it is in condition 0. It takes extra time to rack the slide and again can cause significant problems in high stress situations.

condition 4: UNLOADED chamber, hammer down, safety off(or absent), magazine removed
Requires the user to insert a loaded magazine after which it is in condition 3.

Condition 4 should only be used when it is legally required. Otherwise, it's all about personal preference. The downsides of each can be minimized through training.

Good descriptions.
FIFY.

 

[LockStocksAndBarrel]

My CZs are decockers. Once you rack the slide to chamber a round, the decocker (safety switch on those models) is pressed down and the hammer falls to a half cocked location. Still a DA trigger pull but not as long as would be with the hammer all the way down.