Question that is "Bugging" me.... input appreciated

[dcary7]

So here is my issue...

I do my best to be prepared to either bug in or out, depending on the situation. This is the dilemma.....

When it comes to bugging out, it is one thing for me to survive on minimal stuff. I am quite comfortable taking care of myself in even harsh environments. Providing for three others though, is significantly more challenging. My wife would be able to provide some assistance, but ultimately I have two children under the age of five. They can't/won't do as well in bad situations as myself or my wife would. So, travel and comfort become a concern the family.

That leaves the option of bugging in...

We have a decent house, but it is in way too crowded of a neighborhood. If it got really bad, there would be a lot of parasites running around. Also the layout of the house is horrendous when it comes to home defense. It is just not conducive for providing adequate protection. Too many large windows/sliding glass doors/ etc. . . My work relocated me and I had to buy a house quick, and unfortunately that's what we ended up with.

So the question goes....

Any suggestions of what is the best option for a family with young kids? I know that there are a lot of variables - time of year/ type of crisis or event... Is anyone else having an issue with this? Or has anyone thought of effective methods of travel or suggestions pertaining to this kind of situation? I know I'm not the only person out there that is trying to plan with little kids in the picture.

 

[dirtfarmerz]

If the crisis is just civilians looting and eating each other, then you're better off being out of the city. Ban together with a group of like-minded people in a rural area.

If the crisis includes the government going house-to-house removing guns and people that are terrorists, then you're still better off out of the city, banning together with like-minded people. The DHS had Evangelical Christians listed in the number one slot on their Terrorist Watch List; Al Qaeda was #6. A few years ago most folks would not have believed the events unfolding today could be possible in our country. Look what's happened in the last few years. Things are going the wrong way faster and faster. "They" won't let it slow down because they take advantage of every crisis.

 

[Justus]

IMO, there's way too much emphasis in the prepper world on "long-term relocation on foot" AKA "becoming a refugee"
I struggled with this very issue and you know what happened? - My kids grew up and moved out.
Realistically, what will force you out of the house? Tornado, flood, power outage, toxic fumes or a gas leak?


My 2 cents:
Base your bugout plans on actual events that have already occurred in the US.
Plan for a regional evacuation by pre-arranging accommodations with relatives or friends living in different areas.
Keep enough fuel on hand to get you there.

 

[CountryBoy19]

I know a lot of preppers and survivalists like to have wet-dreams about bugging out so they can justify that new pack, that new mountain bike, and new bug-out-vehicle with uber-tactical trailer on it. But the fact of the matter is, there are VERY, VERY FEW scenarios that a bug-out should be considered.

When would you be better off bugging out vs. bugging in? Think about that.

The advantages to bugging in:
You have all of your supplies with you, at your home. You have your full food supply, all of your important documents, all of your weaponry; you have everything. (Bug-out you have only what you can carry with you)
You also have neighbors, whom I presume you've made a working relationship with. You don't have to reveal that you're a survivalist or prepper to them, but at least know them, maybe invite them to the range a few times to assess their skills etc. The fact of the matter is that you are much better off with multiple adults that are capable of defending you as a community.
You have the tactical advantage. You know your neighborhood as good as anybody else. You know the weak points, the strong points, and you are most comfortable on your own turf. Leaving that should be a last resort.
If somebody needs to find you for any reason, they know where to find you (family, friend etc).

Now, think of the scenarios that would make those above advantages null & void... not very many come to mind, especially not very many long-term possibilities...

The whole issue of bugging out is WAY WAY overblown, IMHO.

 

[Libertarian01]

To Dcary7 (et alia),

I believe that the idea of "bugging out" is way overplayed in most crisis situations. As it has already been said, you can honestly stock more and live easier at home than in running away.

The question becomes: can you reasonably foresee the future enough to understand when the probability of risk is greater at home than at some other location? In other words, there is a tornado coming. It has been sighted and heading your way. It is OBVIOUS that it is safer to head for the basement than to be caught on the street! However, in the immediate aftermath can you determine how large of an area was damaged and how long it will take for the area (presuming your home wasn't flattened) to recover? You should be able to reasonably foresee about how long things will take to return to normal.

The problem arises when the signals of an event are more murky. Say that Citibank reports a massive internal loss of several billion dollars. A glitch in the system. The stock market drops - a little. Then, two (2) weeks later both Bank of America and Wells Fargo both report similar multibillion dollar losses. All of a sudden there is a cascade of banks who have all invested with each other failing big time. The DOW drops from 17,000 to 14,000 in one (1) day. On day two (2) Wall Street is shut down. What do you do? Does this represent the beginning of an economic catastrophe that will cascade to a massive unemployment rate in a matter of days causing panic and chaos in urban areas? Or is it just the market adjusting itself and all will be better in a few monthes? Harder to foresee this event is.

I think the idea is always best to stay as near to home as possible. You have knowledge of the terrain in which you are operating. During a crisis travel is almost always less safe than staying put. So with that in mind you have to go through a mental process. Do you know enough neighbors that you can trust to work with who can carry their own weight, mostly? If yes, build bridges. If you cannot trust the neighbors or there simply aren't enough to carry their own weight what about friends and/or relatives who live close by? Could either you or your wife leave your parents to their own devices? If no, then what plan is in place? If yes, what plan is in place?

If you are going to need to bug out for whatever reason you MUST know where you are bugging out to! This is critical. Just leaving the home is not a good plan. It may be as simple as getting 100 miles away from town, away from the urban chaos. If you don't own property what about going to a campground 100 miles away? Find someplace you can take the kids for a few days that they enjoy. You and the wife become familiar with not only the area but a route to the area, along with secondary routes in case of emergency. The kids become comfortable with the idea of going to the campground and it isn't such a trauma to them. It is a win/win. At the campground you may make friends with other folks whom you may begin to make plans with. Or start with friends who you trust that could join you at the camp ground.

A major problem is food. Say you start with one (1) years food supply for just you. A whole year! With your wife and kids that just got reduced to three (3) monthes! Not even a season, or barely so. Now throw in one (1) set of parents and an idiot sister with one (1) kid and you take a years supply of food down to 45 days for eight (8) people. You go from a year to six (6) weeks darn fast.

Who do you share food and supplies with and who do you kick to the curb? Will you be able to turn a helpless grandmother away who has a young grandchild with her? Do either you or your wife have idiot relatives who never plan and will show up? Can you both agree to turn them away or take them in? If you cannot agree on who to kick out before they even arrive then you better start setting supplies aside for them. If you can agree to kick them away it may be best to have two (2) weeks of supplies to give them before they are tossed. At least planning for it will make it easier.

Not every event can be planned for which is why versatility is critical to survival. Remember the most important thing: nothing is guaranteed! All we can do is plan to reduce risk and maximize the probability of survival, not guarantee it. All we do with every decision we make is affect probabilities.

Specifically regarding the kids, start with doing kid things that may prepare them for bugging out. You might start with just talking to them about where they would want to go if a tornado knocked down the house for awhile? Your parents or her parents? Simple things like taking some longer and longer walks in the evenings. Going camping and having a cold shower or bath when out could help them adjust. Take them hunting (if you hunt) and teach them how you clean a squirrel or rabbit. Before that discuss where meat actually comes from! There are a lot of people out there who really don't think about the food they eat. You could start a small garden and teach them about picking and preparing their own food when it is in season. I would think of doing little things with the kids that teach them about living with less and slowly teaching them the basics of survival/simple living without trying to slam them with Mad Max.

Once they are mentally prepared the physical and doing will be much easier. Same goes for adults.

Regards,

Doug

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

I know a lot of preppers and survivalists like to have wet-dreams about bugging out so they can justify that new pack, that new mountain bike, and new bug-out-vehicle with uber-tactical trailer on it. But the fact of the matter is, there are VERY, VERY FEW scenarios that a bug-out should be considered.

When would you be better off bugging out vs. bugging in? Think about that.

The advantages to bugging in:
You have all of your supplies with you, at your home. You have your full food supply, all of your important documents, all of your weaponry; you have everything. (Bug-out you have only what you can carry with you)
You also have neighbors, whom I presume you've made a working relationship with. You don't have to reveal that you're a survivalist or prepper to them, but at least know them, maybe invite them to the range a few times to assess their skills etc. The fact of the matter is that you are much better off with multiple adults that are capable of defending you as a community.
You have the tactical advantage. You know your neighborhood as good as anybody else. You know the weak points, the strong points, and you are most comfortable on your own turf. Leaving that should be a last resort.
If somebody needs to find you for any reason, they know where to find you (family, friend etc).

Now, think of the scenarios that would make those above advantages null & void... not very many come to mind, especially not very many long-term possibilities...

The whole issue of bugging out is WAY WAY overblown, IMHO.

I agree with that. I put my energies into making my place better equipped. Unless something drives us out, here is where we plan to stay.

 

[ddavidson]

If you are going to need to bug out for whatever reason you MUST know where you are bugging out to!

Everyone needs to repeat this aloud 10X.

 

[ddavidson]

So the question goes.... Any suggestions of what is the best option for a family with young kids? I know that there are a lot of variables - time of year/ type of crisis or event... Is anyone else having an issue with this? Or has anyone thought of effective methods of travel or suggestions pertaining to this kind of situation? I know I'm not the only person out there that is trying to plan with little kids in the picture.

Your profile says "east coast" which can mean a lot of places. When I think of east coast though, I think of congestion. You already know that your family is going to be moving slow. So with that, I think the best thing you can do is look at your bug out scenarios and determine when you need to leave. I.E. Leave before everyone else. Despite an earlier reply that says it's "fact" that there are only a few scenarios, that is incorrect. There are a number of them to consider and I'm not talking about the tinfoil stuff. So make sure you've considered all of those and how you'll handle each one.

 

[kiddchaos]

So based on your location I would say bug out if:
You can go to a relative's home. That is nearby, and more secure.
And if not in a vehicle, could you hike that distance with the kids and supplies in tow?

 

[dcary7]

I appreciate the responses so far. Let me clarify a few things.

My family and I are approximately 750 miles from our nearest relatives (basically all of our relatives - many of which think/plan ahead as well) There are several situations out here which could force us from our home if it went bad enough - hurricane/tornado with prolonged aftermath/ flooding/ power plant failure/ economic disaster (on large scale) given the proximity to Washington D.C....to name a few. No I'm not thinking pack up and run on the slightest hint of trouble. I have some friends in the state that are coworkers to me. Closest one is 20 miles. Others I would have to get closer to DC/Baltimore to get to them and basically that's the opposite of the direction I want to travel. As far as my neighbors/neighborhood... as I stated before, it is way overcrowded...and the negative FAR outweigh the positive. Yes we are prepared pretty well around here for a situation that is not going to drive us from our home. My question though is mainly for my planning of that really bad shtf scenario where my house is no longer safe/existing.

As far as I am concerned, this close to DC in that REALLY bad scenario... there is not going to be a whole lot of "safe" places due to the unprepared panicking masses of people. I know this scenario is thin, to which I would be forced from home and have limited vehicle travel - but I'm just trying to develop at least a somewhat efficient way to have to travel with small children, by foot if needed. I'm not sure that there is necessarily. Just looking for any tip or advice that I may not have thought of. Given my career field, I am very familiar with the land layout and navigation. My concern is just traveling with the children if the need arose. I have taken them primitive camping before and they do well with it, but that's not the same or as taxing as actually having to travel with purpose. I don't want this question to come across as me having outlandish thoughts of surviving the wild with my family... not the case, I'm just trying to get ideas for what would allow efficient/ effective travel with the children. May sound dumb, but would having a heavy duty wagon/cart be a viable option ? because the youngest isnt gonna be hiking any distance anytime soon. He just started walking. The 4 year old has actually done small hikes for a couple miles with me and did very well, but realistically, it would not be effective to have to carry bags and the children. That's where I am going with this question.

Thanks,

dcary7

 

[Justus]

May sound dumb, but would having a heavy duty wagon/cart be a viable option ? because the youngest isnt gonna be hiking any distance anytime soon. He just started walking. The 4 year old has actually done small hikes for a couple miles with me and did very well, but realistically, it would not be effective to have to carry bags and the children. That's where I am going with this question.

Thanks,

dcary7

A cart or wagon isn't dumb. It sounds like your only other option if travel by car/truck is not possible.
I've seen people using pull-behind carts on hiking trails because they could no longer carry a backpack.
The last one I saw had a harness that used padded milsurp shoulder straps.
The cart looked similar to this:

 

[churchmouse]

Our situation is very similar in that we have small G-kids. They live next door and we prep as a unit. My son has moved but not far and has a daughter (soon to be 3) as well. Traveling distances in a bad situation would be a serious undertaking. Wife is not up to any kind of long walks so combine all this and it will be vehicle roll outs if we have to leave. With this in mind we have re-done or gear to be easy load out. Weather resistant hi-grade totes. This allows grab and go load outs with a lot more gear/food/clothing/shelter. All of which adds to some comfort for the young kids (all girls) and less stress for the adults.

We have designated destinations with routes planned for each.