Questions on selling a car

[HoughMade]

Is the bill of sale required for anything? Does the signed over title do the same thing?

Just like in private firearms sales, I'm not much for unnecessary documentation.

Legally, the signed title is all the BMV cares about....sometimes. Other times, they'll ask for that, a bill of sale, your firstborn's blood type and verification of circumcision. Seems to be random.

For me, since the state has iron-clad documentary evidence (computer searchable) that I owned the vehicle, i want evidence that it's no longer mine should the person I sell it to use it for mopery.

Since I don't believe in selling guns (reduce my stockpile...i think not!) I haven't had occasion to deal with that...though I think I would want the same thing- evidence that it isn't mine anymore. I'm into protecting myself, not the buyer.

 

[bwframe]

That's why I'm asking. I have never had the BMV require anything other than the signed title.

I've bought and sold a few guns. IMHO, documentation beyond the required is nothing but problematic.

 

[Moparracer89]

Cash Cash Cash Cash nothing but cash and dont take payments from anyone, full amount up front.

 

[DRob]

Depending upon where you advertise it, you may get a call from the guy in California who "has a market for your car" and offers to pay the full asking price plus $500. He will send his "agent" to pick up the vehicle. The agent will bring a cashier's check for the price plus $500 and ask you to write your $500 check to the agent to cover the delivery. I got a call from him for a truck I listed on Craigs List. As soon as I told him to have his agent bring cash, he hung up.

Do whatever documentation you and the buyer are comfortable with.

 

[Gluemanz28]

If buying with cash you might want to let your bank know in advance if you want $100 bills.

When I bought my wife's first Harley we paid $9,500 for it. 5/3 bank didn't have that many $100 bills in stock. They said we needed to give them a day or twos notice so they can order the currency.

I was surprised that a bank didn't have more $100 bills on hand.

 

[CampingJosh]

If buying with cash you might want to let your bank know in advance if you want $100 bills.

When I bought my wife's first Harley we paid $9,500 for it. 5/3 bank didn't have that many $100 bills in stock. They said we needed to give them a day or twos notice so they can order the currency.

I was surprised that a bank didn't have more $100 bills on hand.

Banks are very much moving away from cash. I've heard recent(ish) podcasts from both Freakonomics and the London School of Economics calling for the elimination of at least big bills.

 

[WebSnyper]

You can always choose to meet at a branch of the buyer's bank. His check gets you cash from his bank.

Also, the new $100 bills are very difficult to counterfeit well. Learn several of the features, and take a few minutes to check the bills. It's OK to take 10 minutes when accepting $7000 in cash from a stranger. And it's OK to ask for payment in $100s instead of $20s.

This is what I did as a buyer, and a seller previously. We went to the buyer's bank/credit union. When I bought my truck from private seller, since it was north of what you are talking about in price, the seller was kind enough to meet me at a dealership, where I had the service area do a quick check out that I paid for (also got their sales dept to run the carfax for me for free), and then we went to my credit union to get him paid, he also was nice enough to go to the BMV with me, so I could quickly tag it, after which I took him home, since he didn't have a ride at that point.

On my son's truck which was much less $$, I still did similar and the seller was kind enough to meet me at my mechanic, who did a quick once over, then met me at my credit union to get him paid, and then I went by myself to the BMV.

On both occasions, I had discussed the logistics with the seller and all was agreed to and understood going into the actual transaction. Both purchases were contingent upon the vehicle being checked out by mechanic of my choosing, paid for by me, etc. There were no surprises on either end.

Cash is king. It also allows for negotiation that may not be had otherwise.

Your best bet is to sell your vehicle in the INGO classifieds. You have the availability to vet your purchasers in advance through their iTrader rating and (even more importantly) through their post history. They also can do the same with you as a seller. You cannot get that anywhere else.

Icing on the cake is that the purchaser WILL be carrying, the same as you. Everybody will know everyone else is a good guy.

Signed clear title, with the purchaser filling in the necessities, has always been the best bill of sale for me.

As a seller, I'd pull the plate before the buyer got there. Don't let them "have it to drive home."

Agreed 100%.

Perfect timing, I am looking at purchasing from a private seller soon.
Questions...

Do I need to have the seller fill out any odometer statement for the BMV, or will the title suffice?
Is it common to have both parties fill out a bill of sale?
I figure that would be what I need to drive it without tags home and to the BMV.
Does the title need to be notarized or just signed?

Depending on whats out there, I may buy in Indiana or Kentucky.

Thanks

There is a way to get a temp tag in advance, I believe https://in.gov/bmv/3242.htm
I had called about that regarding the process, but never needed to do it.

6-7k isn't bad. My last sale was 16k and the guy brought cash. Had to go to the credit union to pay them off and get the title so checking bills was covered anyway. If they get fidgety about going to your, their, or any bank to check cash, you probably don't want to deal with them anyway. You can always call a nearby bank or credit union and tell them you're doing a large transaction and would they be willing to check for count and counterfeiting for you.

Agreed, if someone is not willing to meet at a reasonably distanced bank or credit union location for such a transaction, then move on.

 

[Cameramonkey]

If meeting at your bank, wire transfer? Doesnt that negate any issues with cash, bogus checks, etc? (just spitballing here)

 

[ws6guy]

Thanks for the input! Sounds like cash will be king. Also I just realized that the title is only in my wifes name. She is not going to want any part of the selling process so I guess I'll need to add my name to the title

 

[russc2542]

Cash Cash Cash Cash nothing but cash and dont take payments from anyone, full amount up front.

OMG can't +1 this enough. When we were selling my wife's car she wanted to sell to a coworker (actually a school-to-work/co-op kind of thing) but he didn't have cash up front. I did some digging (all of which screamed "NOOOOO!!!") and told her it was a bad idea but it's her car. She did it. He only paid about 2/3 of the agreed upon price (I will admit the agreed price was a bit inflated BUT that's what you get when you want to make payments) and we have no recourse. When you sell privately on payments, options are (roughly) you keep the title and you're legally responsible for the car not in your possession OR sign the title over and you're not legally responsible but only their word that you'll get paid. You can put a lien on it but that just keeps them from transferring the title again.

Thanks for the input! Sounds like cash will be king. Also I just realized that the title is only in my wifes name. She is not going to want any part of the selling process so I guess I'll need to add my name to the title

Just have her sign it. You aren't title-jumping, you're just carrying out the transaction for her. She doesn't have to be present. If you were two unrelated people and she transferred the car to you, then at a later time you sold it to someone else .gov might care if you fessed up but as long as she doesn't contest the sale there's no need to bother getting your name on it. Even if you add your name to the title, you'll need both names to sell it.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

This is not accurate. There is no grace period under the law for driving without a license plate/registration. Will a LEO give you a break if you only bought it a day or two ago? Good chance but they are not required to. You can take your own unexpired plates and registration with you to put on the new vehicle, and drive it for up to 31 days legally though.

IC 9-18-6-5
Transfer of plates; violation
Sec. 5. (a) Upon the disposition by sale or other means of a motor
vehicle, trailer, semitrailer, recreational vehicle, or motor home
currently registered in Indiana, the license plate from the disposed
motor vehicle, trailer, semitrailer, recreational vehicle, or motor
home may be:
(1) transferred by the person who is the current registrant to any
other vehicle of the same type acquired by the person; and
(2) operated in Indiana for not more than thirty-one (31) days
after the date the person acquires ownership of the vehicle.
(b) The person who is the registrant must have in the person's
possession a:
(1) manufacturer's certificate of origin;
(2) duly assigned certificate of title; or
(3) bill of sale;
indicating that the person is the owner of the vehicle to which the
unexpired license plates are affixed.
(c) A person who operates a motor vehicle, trailer, semitrailer,
recreational vehicle, or motor home in violation of subsection (b)
commits a Class C infraction.
As added by P.L.2-1991, SEC.6. Amended

Thats not an unreasonable amount to ask in cash. Also since your selling it at your place of employment you have a minor relationship with who ever buys it. A few years ago I bought a Corvette from a guy in Indy. Paid for it with 360 100$ bills in a Mcdonalds sack. He didnt even blink an eye taking it.

My dad helped with a similar deal. A co-worker was looking for a vintage Corvette, my dad knew of someone selling one. He drove the buyer over to get it, he had the cash in a brown paper lunch sack. The seller took the bag and just tossed it on the seat of his car. The guy asked if he was going to count it, the seller asked him "is it all there?". The guy said yes, the seller said okay.

The seller was old school. He was a funeral director who buried most of my family at the time. When my uncle went in to make arrangements for my granddad after he passed. He asked him about payments, the director asked him what he could afford and when. My uncle told him and he replied "okay, good enough". My uncle asked if he needed to sign anything, and was told. "If your word isn't good, why would you signature be?"

OMG can't +1 this enough. When we were selling my wife's car she wanted to sell to a coworker (actually a school-to-work/co-op kind of thing) but he didn't have cash up front. I did some digging (all of which screamed "NOOOOO!!!") and told her it was a bad idea but it's her car. She did it. He only paid about 2/3 of the agreed upon price (I will admit the agreed price was a bit inflated BUT that's what you get when you want to make payments) and we have no recourse. When you sell privately on payments, options are (roughly) you keep the title and you're legally responsible for the car not in your possession OR sign the title over and you're not legally responsible but only their word that you'll get paid. You can put a lien on it but that just keeps them from transferring the title again.

Get it in writing and you have civil recourse. Sue and if they don't pay then you can garnish their checks if they work, if they don't and you have their SSN you can garnish their tax returns.

 

[woowoo2]

The one time that we agreed to sell a car on a payment plan, we kept possession of the car.
Kid payed it off, then he took possession.

 

[russc2542]

This is not accurate. There is no grace period under the law for driving without a license plate/registration. Will a LEO give you a break if you only bought it a day or two ago? Good chance but they are not required to. You can take your own unexpired plates and registration with you to put on the new vehicle, and drive it for up to 31 days legally though.

Get it in writing and you have civil recourse. Sue and if they don't pay then you can garnish their checks if they work, if they don't and you have their SSN you can garnish their tax returns.

I stand corrected on using your old plates vs no plates. Maybe that was from when I lived in IL? I have had popo behind me without a plate on more than one occasion in nice and not so nice areas (post sale and post theft/lost). I know the signed title/BOS substitutes for the registration till you get to the BMV.

Civil recourse, yes, but not a lot and is it worth the time/expense for, in my case, $700? Just out of curiosity, since you are more familiar with IN law and while I have your ear, what documentation would be required and where would one even start with that? We have a signed and notarized (another of the wife's coworkers does that) BOS with handwritten list of payments on the back.

I do feel bad (only a little) for the kid, he makes terrible decisions (gf/fiancee is a HS dropout and deadbeat and he (buyer) is taking care of her kid from another guy) and he's a walking disaster repeatedly incurring injury and medical expenses (one of those where anyone else would just get a bruise but he was positioned just right to break a bone instead).