Range safety - shooting with strangers - ND

[bigretic]

A while back I was involved with an ND at a range and I am just tossing this out there as a point in being and remaining safe.

The scenerio: Private indoor range, 50 ft, walk and hang targets. Arrived to find 4 other shooters in progress. Based on log time, they had been there approximately an hour. I entered and notified them that there were others waiting for range time as is the proceedure and they were sort of wrapping up anyway. They said they would clear a booth in the mean time. I exited and waited about 10 minutes while chatting with the guest I had brought.

I checked in again and they had cleared a booth and were sweeping up brass. At that point we loaded in our stuff. I then informed that I was going down range to hang targets. After hanging a few targets, the unthinkable happened. A round went off while I was standing there hanging targets.

Let me just say that I was in total disbelief that it even happened. I wasn't even sure how to process it. The first thing I did was spin around looking for a shooter in a booth, but there was none. This confused me even more. Everyone was still standing and seemed to be as confused as me. Unbelievably, after assessing this, I turned around and hung 2 more targets before walking back.

This is when I went from shocked to pissed. I confronted the party and the response was "i don't know, it just went off". Of course we all know that crap happens, but the issue is not the ND. The issue is that the ND took place while I was down range. Thankfully, the round went into the floor and not at me, but there was an injury to a person as a result of flying cement from the ND.

This leaves me with some strong issues now going to any range and shooting with people I don't know. You just never can trust someone not to be doing something stupid while you are not looking.

So, what do you do at the range when there are "strangers" present?

 

[Bunnykid68]

A while back I was involved with an ND at a range and I am just tossing this out there as a point in being and remaining safe.

The scenerio: Private indoor range, 50 ft, walk and hang targets. Arrived to find 4 other shooters in progress. Based on log time, they had been there approximately an hour. I entered and notified them that there were others waiting for range time as is the proceedure and they were sort of wrapping up anyway. They said they would clear a booth in the mean time. I exited and waited about 10 minutes while chatting with the guest I had brought.

I checked in again and they had cleared a booth and were sweeping up brass. At that point we loaded in our stuff. I then informed that I was going down range to hang targets. After hanging a few targets, the unthinkable happened. A round went off while I was standing there hanging targets.

Let me just say that I was in total disbelief that it even happened. I wasn't even sure how to process it. The first thing I did was spin around looking for a shooter in a booth, but there was none. This confused me even more. Everyone was still standing and seemed to be as confused as me. Unbelievably, after assessing this, I turned around and hung 2 more targets before walking back.

This is when I went from shocked to pissed. I confronted the party and the response was "i don't know, it just went off". Of course we all know that crap happens, but the issue is not the ND. The issue is that the ND took place while I was down range. Thankfully, the round went into the floor and not at me, but there was an injury to a person as a result of flying cement from the ND.

This leaves me with some strong issues now going to any range and shooting with people I don't know. You just never can trust someone not to be doing something stupid while you are not looking.

So, what do you do at the range when there are "strangers" present?

Pay attention to the way they are handling their firearms before I even start unpacking mine.

 

[cobber]

I'm not sure I would have turned my back and hung more targets after the ND.

If you were really pissed, why not at least get back to the firing line, or just clear out until they had left?

Many shooters at public ranges give me cause for concern. If I had my own land I wouldn't ever go to a public range.

You just never can trust someone not to be doing something stupid while you are not looking.

As many have stated here, there is no prerequisite of (for? to have?) brains to engage in the free exercise of constitutional rights. That being said, those of us who DO have brains have to take reasonable precautions around knuckleheads with guns.

 

[AuntieBellum]

I typically shoot with a partner. One of us stays at the firing line while the other hangs targets. That way we literally have each others' backs if someone picks up a firearm while the other is downrange.

 

[bigretic]

Pay attention to the way they are handling their firearms before I even start unpacking mine.

They were packing up.

I'm not sure I would have turned my back and hung more targets after the ND.

Can't explain why I did that. I've played it over in my head 100 times.

 

[HandK]

Wow! I'm glad your OK! and it goes to show that you can never be to careful, Thanks for sharing your story! it might keep someone else from getting hurt!

 

[cbseniour]

Glad you are ok, Other people on the range are not strangers they are potential friends. It usually only takes a few minutes to sort out the resonsible shooters from the riff raff. Anyone including you and I can have an accident, if it is an accident then treat it as such and move on. If someone was acting irresponsibly then report them to the range officials or law enforcement, otherwise don't over process it except to the extent of making sure you don't let it happen again. You had guests at the range why weren't they watching your back???

 

[Randrayla]

I just try to avoid it all together. I tend to only go to the range during off hours.

I broke that rule yesterday and was reminded why I have that rule to begin with.

The guy in the booth next to me at Popguns kept having issues with his 1911. At one point I looked over and he was standing at the ammo loading table looking down the barrel! He then dry fired at the glass windows 3 or 4 times! You're at a damn range, dry fire down the lane!

I quickly left after that. Its sad because the Popguns staff used to come in and yell at people for doing crap like this. They don't seem to give a damn anymore.

 

[DRob]

Assumptions

It's often said we should assume all guns are loaded. It obviously follows that we should assume any armed person we don't know is an idiot!

 

[beararms1776]

It's often said we should assume all guns are loaded. It obviously follows that we should assume any armed person we don't know is an idiot!

The first part I agree with but why would you want others to think your an idiot?

 

[Diesel24v]

The range that I have been going to requires the use of Empty Chamber Indicators. We do not have to walk onto the range to hang the targets but at least if something does happen that calls for someone to be on the range then the ECI has to be inserted before anything happens. I know that someone could go around this after you turn your back.

The other day a lady was shooting in the lane next to my buddy and I looked over and she had leaned over to talk to someone in the other booth and pointed the gun at the stall my buddy was in momentarily. Luckily they are plate steel walls with pea fill in them and the gun did not go off. But it just goes to show that not everyone is safe when handling guns so we constantly have to watch our backs.

Does your range have any type of safety net for when people go downrange to hang a target? Such as an ECI or a Cease fire mandated by range personnel?

 

[DRob]

Simple

The first part I agree with but why would you want others to think your an idiot?

Because you don't know me and have no idea whether or not I'm competent. If I don't know you and I see you're armed, I'm going to assume you're an idiot until you prove otherwise. How could I expect anything different from others.

 

[Bunnykid68]

Because you don't know me and have no idea whether or not I'm competent. If I don't know you and I see you're armed, I'm going to assume you're an idiot until you prove otherwise. How could I expect anything different from others.

Yep. Kinda like that saying, be nice to everyone you meet but have a plan to kill them

 

[WC Deer Hunter]

Wow, glad you were okay and hope the person who got hurt from the cement debris is too.

I've never shot at an indoor range and don't really plan too. The range I shoot at is for members only and it's small. Most of the people I have had the pleasure of meeting and shooting with there were very good when it comes to safety issues. We have a "NO CLOSED CHAMBER RULE" when anyone is downrange and everyone is good about making sure that nobody disobeys that rule. Most of the time though it's just me and maybe one other at any given time. Nice benefit of a small town and small club.

 

[Toolepqk]

I just try to avoid it all together. I tend to only go to the range during off hours.

I broke that rule yesterday and was reminded why I have that rule to begin with.

The guy in the booth next to me at Popguns kept having issues with his 1911. At one point I looked over and he was standing at the ammo loading table looking down the barrel! He then dry fired at the glass windows 3 or 4 times! You're at a damn range, dry fire down the lane!

I quickly left after that. Its sad because the Popguns staff used to come in and yell at people for doing crap like this. They don't seem to give a damn anymore.

Pops is borderline dangerous and the staff could care less what is going on in the range. I went to shoot there about 2 months ago, there 2 guys at a lane taking pictures of themselves with the gun. While I was loading a magazine I looked over and 1 guy was posing for a picture pointing his gun at someone's back in another lane. Needless to say I lost my cool. Unfortunatly every time I go to pops somebody is being irresponsible.

 

[beararms1776]

Because you don't know me and have no idea whether or not I'm competent. If I don't know you and I see you're armed, I'm going to assume you're an idiot until you prove otherwise. How could I expect anything different from others.

I would like to think that if anyone seen you carrying, that you were found competent to carry when you filled out the ltch form. How would someone have to prove it? I thought thats what the ltc did.

 

[85t5mcss]

Nah, in Indiana the LTCH only proves your a proper person at the time of the acquisition. Where as other states require a training course to give some validity to being a responsible gun handling, gun totin' re blooded American.

I'm not opposed to training, I'm all for it, but not gonna get into the debate of whether or not the law should require it. In theory, everyone should research it and be responsible. Just doesn't always seem to happen.

 

[Mgderf]

I would like to think that if anyone seen you carrying, that you were found competent to carry when you filled out the ltch form. How would someone have to prove it? I thought thats what the ltc did.

You can't tell by looking at someone that they possess a LTCH, and it wouldn't do much good if you could. A LTCH does NOT prove proficiency with a firearm. It only states that you are a "proper person" in the eyes of law enforcement.

It's for just this reason that some states do do recognize Indiana's licenses. No training is required to obtain it.

On the other hand, going to ANY public range is much like walking down ANY public street, or driving down ANY public road.
A drivers license is supposed to demonstrate at least a basic proficiency with a vehicle. The problem is, not everyone driving on the public streets HAVE a drviers license.
Not ALL people who carry a handgun possess a license to do so. I know quite a few old-timers that say, "I've been carring my whole life without a license, I'm not about to get one now..."
Not a suggested course of action, but those folks are out there.

I NEVER assume that someone knows what they are doing with a firearm. They need to PROVE that to me.

Strangers are just that, an unknown.

 

[kjf40]

If that were my range they would not be coming back, i dont ever see guns "just go off".

Just amazes me...Glad your good to go though, shows you cant have trust in complete strangers when it could mean your life.

 

[fng120]

Goes to show you that you never know. They had a guy commit suicide by renting a gun to fire at a range in northwest indiana. He could have easily shot other people first.