Range toy 308 or 6.5 cr ?

[42769vette]

it shines in noticeable less recoil, correct ?

It does have less recoil, but to most folks the 308 doesnt have enough kick to be detrimental in anyway, but when it comes to recoil less is always better, so its a win.

 

[natdscott]

@natdscott or vette - all the Highpower guys like it, what's your experience? I have none, I'm only repeating what I've been told.

John, I would only point out that Highpower guys can be every bit the fanbois of yore that everyone else is; in this case, it is made all the more true because of Dennis' involvement in it, it's namesake, and the fact that Highpower is often toward the cutting edge of developmental cartridges (at least relative to the general public).

The cartridge is great. I get that. It is legitimately--and purposefully--better in design than the 6.5-08 Winchester (bastardized into the .260 Rem) ever was.

It is NOT the first of it's kind, given that 6.5 Arisaka, in a thicker casing and with modern powders, will easily accomplish Creed levels. That, and the 7.7 (eta derf...Swiss, Swedish...) Swiss even had a sharp-ish shoulder angle. 6.5 SLR, 6.5x47 Lapua...etc. etc....

But what Creed HAS is the best of everything in modern design, standardized (but also proprietary) reamers, the best components, and maybe most importantly the financial backing and/or corporate cooperation of the likes of Hornady, Creedmoor Sports, & Pacific Tool & Gauge. None of the other cartridges or companies can claim that laundry list of success, and what do you know? They aren't.

Incidentally, if you combine the fact that the Creedmoor has mostly only been chambered in rifles with a bent toward precision, and that the market segment most interested in it is almost entirely devoted to the pursuit of precision, you have a winning perception. If you had introduced the 6mm BR in a Remington 710, maybe it wouldn't have seen the success that it has?

None of the above should be taken as slanderous to the actual performance of the cartridge. I think it is wonderful in it's own right. It is not a -284, -06, or Win Mag, but it wasn't intended to be. It seems that it was intended to dig up, kill, and rebury .260, and put at least a couple stakes in the heart of -47 Lapua. Given that Lapua is now producing SR brass in the Creed THEMSELVES...well, I would say that the death of the -47 is almost a forgone conclusion in the US.

Now in regards specifically to the .308 v. Creed discussion here: there's just not a compelling reason for the OP to choose the Creedmoor EXCEPT for recoil, and even that is not going to be extremely significant.

Frankly, the OP does not sound extremely educated on the matter (thus the nature of their questions here), does not sound like a handloader, does not sound like they have extremely high expectations (as they stated), and I'm guessing here, but it sounds like they'd like to shoot more VOLUME of fire on the plinking target range than fire lower volume at greater PRECISION. Ammo is expensive for the Creedmoor.

And gosh, since the .308 can easily shoot groups in the Teens and Twenties on it's own, I can't see where the Creed can be said to best it in precision anyway. Neither one are a PPC.

That's what I think. I'd go with Creed, but the OP and I have different requirements of rifle platforms, I think you'd agree.

-Nate

 

[weedsnager]

John, I would only point out that Highpower guys can be every bit the fanbois of yore that everyone else is; in this case, it is made all the more true because of Dennis' involvement in it, it's namesake, and the fact that Highpower is often toward the cutting edge of developmental cartridges (at least relative to the general public).

The cartridge is great. I get that. It is legitimately--and purposefully--better in design than the 6.5-08 Winchester (bastardized into the .260 Rem) ever was.

It is NOT the first of it's kind, given that 6.5 Arisaka, in a thicker casing and with modern powders, will easily accomplish Creed levels. That, and the 6.5 Swiss even had a sharper shoulder angle. 6.5 SLR, 6.5x47 Lapua...etc. etc....

But what Creed HAS is the best of everything in modern design, standardized (but also proprietary) reamers, the best components, and maybe most importantly the financial backing and/or corporate cooperation of the likes of Hornady, Creedmoor Sports, & Pacific Tool & Gauge. None of the other cartridges or companies can claim that laundry list of success, and what do you know? They aren't.

Incidentally, if you combine the fact that the Creedmoor has mostly only been chambered in rifles with a bent toward precision, and that the market segment most interested in it is almost entirely devoted to the pursuit of precision, you have a winning perception. If you had introduced the 6mm BR in a Remington 710, maybe it wouldn't have seen the success that it has?

None of the above should be taken as slanderous to the actual performance of the cartridge. I think it is wonderful in it's own right. It is not a -284, -06, or Win Mag, but it wasn't intended to be. It seems that it was intended to dig up, kill, and rebury .260, and put at least a couple stakes in the heart of -47 Lapua. Given that Lapua is now producing SR brass in the Creed THEMSELVES...well, I would say that the death of the -47 is almost a forgone conclusion in the US.

Now in regards specifically to the .308 v. Creed discussion here: there's just not a compelling reason for the OP to choose the Creedmoor EXCEPT for recoil, and even that is not going to be extremely significant.

Frankly, the OP does not sound extremely educated on the matter (thus the nature of their questions here), does not sound like a handloader, does not sound like they have extremely high expectations (as they stated), and I'm guessing here, but it sounds like they'd like to shoot more VOLUME of fire on the plinking target range than fire lower volume at greater PRECISION. Ammo is expensive for the Creedmoor.

And gosh, since the .308 can easily shoot groups in the Teens and Twenties on it's own, I can't see where the Creed can be said to best it in precision anyway. Neither one are a PPC.

That's what I think. I'd go with Creed, but the OP and I have different requirements of rifle platforms, I think you'd agree.

-Nate

im not a handloader

Looking at the Savage 10t-sr now instead of the Thompson compass

 

[two70]

So I ran the numbers using Winchester's Ballistic App: Sight-in: 100yd, crosswind 10mph, @500yds: 6.5 Creedmoor - Drop 54.6", Drift 15.6", 308 Win - Drop 53.8", Drift 19". So is the 6.5 really flatter shooting than the 308?

Yes, it is flatter... if you shoot far enough. The thing that gets lost in the long range shooting craze is that the distance you need to shoot to begin to see the difference between many of the new, popular cartridges and the old standbys (or the difference between heavy bullets vs. normal weight ones for that matter) is much farther than the average shooter is likely to shoot.

 

[natdscott]

Yes, it is flatter... if you shoot far enough. The thing that gets lost in the long range shooting craze is that the distance you need to shoot to begin to see the difference between many of the new, popular cartridges and the old standbys (or the difference between heavy bullets vs. normal weight ones for that matter) is much farther than the average shooter is likely to shoot.

...and one of my favorite gun-guy/gunrag untruths are the comparisons sometimes drawn between something like 7.62mm Ball, and a super-blast'em-flatter VLD in the new hot cartridge. Well sure. 25+ years more technology in the bullet's design will---in fact---widen the perceived gap between an 'old standby' and whatever cartridge is now the flavor of the week.

-Nate

 

[two70]

...and one of my favorite gun-guy/gunrag untruths are the comparisons sometimes drawn between something like 7.62mm Ball, and a super-blast'em-flatter VLD in the new hot cartridge. Well sure. 25+ years more technology in the bullet's design will---in fact---widen the perceived gap between an 'old standby' and whatever cartridge is now the flavor of the week.

-Nate

...and even with the most beneficially contrived comparison they still somehow to neglect to mention that you only see the improved performance of the new wonder bullet/cartridge well past 500 yards.

 

[Hohn]

6.5 cr recoil a lot less then the 308 ?
what size scope would be ideal for 150 yards ? Not trying to win any competitions, just wondering what the best size would be for seeing a target that far

I'm not an expert, not even a skilled long range shooter. But I find 12x to be a good all-around magnification because with non-moving targets, you want somewhat high power magnification, but not something that dies with a bit of mirage. Fixed magnification is a good idea for targets, IMO.

I have an SWFA 12x42 and it's pretty much ideal for targets in the 100-150 range-- very clear, excellent reticle. And it's cheap too! $300 I paid.

 

[Hohn]

...and one of my favorite gun-guy/gunrag untruths are the comparisons sometimes drawn between something like 7.62mm Ball, and a super-blast'em-flatter VLD in the new hot cartridge. Well sure. 25+ years more technology in the bullet's design will---in fact---widen the perceived gap between an 'old standby' and whatever cartridge is now the flavor of the week.

-Nate

Exactly. Load up a .30 cal round with a 230gr Berger and then run the comparison. Suddenly it's not quite as clear cut.

 

[patience0830]

Ran a 6.5 a few weekends ago. Less recoil than my .308 and it was a joy to shoot.
If I was building a range toy that would be my choice.

Told you you'd like it.

 

[KJQ6945]

Told you you'd like it.

That was a very impressive rifle, and a pleasure to shoot.

 

[sheepdog697]

keep in mind. The .308 is fine out to 800 yds. I buy 168gr/175gr FGMM from palmetto state all the time for 15.99 shipped. I have shot out beyond 1000yds but that is rare. The .308 is a very capable round. ESPECIALLY if its just a range toy. How far can you shoot at your range?

 

[Aflac]

Between the 2 options for me it would come down to the cost of ammo and ammo options out there. So I would go with the 308.

 

[dtkw]

I think the US snipers used a 308 rounds to killed the enemies

 

[sloughfoot]

I have never understood the concept of the "range toy".

Even my specialized match rifles could be pressed into service with great effect as defensive firearms at any time. Even my single shot Palma gun.

I purchase, build, and select calibers with that ultimate use always in the back of my mind.

Maybe I am just too old.

 

[KJQ6945]

I have never understood the concept of the "range toy".

Even my specialized match rifles could be pressed into service with great effect as defensive firearms at any time. Even my single shot Palma gun.

I purchase, build, and select calibers with that ultimate use always in the back of my mind.

Maybe I am just too old.

Then I'm old too, same here.

Ultimately, all our guns are range toys, unless you are a collector who doesn't shoot them. I generally buy them to fill a niche, but sometimes, I'll get something just because, "I always wanted one of those". Those usually don't stay long. They're either sold or given to the kids.

If the zombies or the red hoard show up, we're prepared, but ultimately, and realistically, they're all just toys. Until the wild pigs show up in Indiana, then they'll be tools.

 

[Leadeye]

As a collector who restores, makes ammo for, and shoots old guns, it's where the fun is. From a practical point of view my woods carry gun is a Glock, not an SAA. Same reason I don't drive my Charger to work every day, it's for fun.

 

[DRob]

Cabelas is running a sale on the Savage 12FV again. It's available in several chamberings including .308 and 6.5 Creedmore. $419 less $100 in-store discount and $100 mail-in rebate. Hard to beat $219 for a heavy barreled varminter with the accu-trigger. If I didn't already have three of them, I'd be ordering.

 

[teddy12b]

Cabelas is running a sale on the Savage 12FV again. It's available in several chamberings including .308 and 6.5 Creedmore. $419 less $100 in-store discount and $100 mail-in rebate. Hard to beat $219 for a heavy barreled varminter with the accu-trigger. If I didn't already have three of them, I'd be ordering.

I saw that deal and for a heavy barreled savage for under $300 that's such an amazing deal on a rifle that'll probably outshoot 99.99% of guys out there.

 

[edporch]

If it's just a range toy why not a .22 or something smaller centerfire like a .223?

For me, I've always found it more challenging to shoot a rifle well that has more recoil.
It forces me to work harder on technique.
Though I've never fired a 6.5 cr, I see it said here that it recoils less than a .308.
This is the main reason why between the two, I'd choose a .308 rifle for a "range toy" because it has more recoil.