Real-estate agents

[EODThree]

In Indiana, are real-estate agents required by law to represent ONLY the buyer or seller as appropriate. Are there professional standards?

We are nearing close and are finding out some things that "make me very angry".

 

[Lancem]

 

[hooky]

I believe that's the case as of around 2000 or so. I know that I've always gotten a document stating the Realtor is working for me, not the other party.

 

[88GT]

In Indiana, are real-estate agents required by law to represent ONLY the buyer or seller as appropriate.

We are required by license law and professional ethic standards to represent our client. There are very specific fiduciary requirements. We are not prevented from representing both in a single transaction, but there are additional actions that must be taken to do so. However, if that is not the case, then representation should be strictly limited to the client with whom agency is established.

Are there professional standards?

Absolutely. There is a grievance process if you feel that your agent has failed in his/her duty. This is not taken lightly by Indiana Real Estate Commission or the local boards. But clients and customers have to initiate the process with the filing of a grievance before anything can be done.

We are nearing close and are finding out some things that "make me very angry".

If you feel that strongly about it, I cannot encourage you enough to take the appropriate action.

HERE is a quick tutorial on filing the ethics complaint. It is from my local board, but the general idea is applicable through all boards because the standards apply to all REALTORs.

HERE is a link to the Code of Ethics and Standards of Practice for all REALTORs. If you file an ethics complaint through the boards, they will likely want you to identify which Standard of Practice you feel was violated by the licensee. Some actions may violate more than one.

Your local board is the venue for pursuing this. They will have an ethics complaint form for you to complete. I'm sorry I don't know which board you would need to go to.

If you feel the action warrants it, you may file also complaint with the AG and involve the IN real estate commission. PLA: File a Complaint

HTH. Jenn

 

[chocktaw2]

In Indiana, are real-estate agents required by law to represent ONLY the buyer or seller as appropriate. Are there professional standards?

We are nearing close and are finding out some things that "make me very angry".

Laws? Yes, there are professional standards. Just remember that lawyer's and president's take oaths also. You need to ask yourself if you have ever broke the law. Seems like laws are made to be broken. I hope this deal works out to your advantage.

 

[teddy12b]

Good luck, I've never met a realtor that brought much to the table other than a desire for their 3% cut. Every house I've bought I have found it, I negotiated the price, I paid for an inspector, and I wondered why I was paying some glorified used car salesman to run the standard paperwork that he learned about on his weekend seminar to get licensed so he can hose me for 3% of the homes value.

The bottom line is that a realtor can't make you like a house enough to buy it. They can't tell you what you're willing to pay for a house, and beyond pointing out any obvious or glaring faults they're just going to tell you to have an inspector come out to verify it's condition so they shrug off that liability too.

If you can't tell I'm not a big fan of realtors and I put their profession in the same category as lawyers and career politicians. I'd love to learn how you can keep them honest and accountable. Hopefully you're having better luck than I am.

 

[TVon]

If an agent is representing both parties, they have to get written consent from both parties or they are breaking the law.

What happened?

 

[hooky]

Good luck, I've never met a realtor that brought much to the table other than a desire for their 3% cut. Every house I've bought I have found it, I negotiated the price, I paid for an inspector, and I wondered why I was paying some glorified used car salesman to run the standard paperwork that he learned about on his weekend seminar to get licensed so he can hose me for 3% of the homes value.

The bottom line is that a realtor can't make you like a house enough to buy it. They can't tell you what you're willing to pay for a house, and beyond pointing out any obvious or glaring faults they're just going to tell you to have an inspector come out to verify it's condition so they shrug off that liability too.

If you can't tell I'm not a big fan of realtors and I put their profession in the same category as lawyers and career politicians. I'd love to learn how you can keep them honest and accountable. Hopefully you're having better luck than I am.

You haven't had a good Realtor then. And the home inspection is on you. No Realtor will do that.

Just like an attorney, accountant or any other professional service, you need to interview people and get recommendations. If you're not comfortable with them, don't hire them. It's just common sense.

 

[88GT]

Good luck, I've never met a realtor that brought much to the table other than a desire for their 3% cut. Every house I've bought I have found it, I negotiated the price, I paid for an inspector, and I wondered why I was paying some glorified used car salesman to run the standard paperwork that he learned about on his weekend seminar to get licensed so he can hose me for 3% of the homes value.

You didn't pay him if you were the buyer. And why should you not pay the home inspector?

The bottom line is that a realtor can't make you like a house enough to buy it. They can't tell you what you're willing to pay for a house, and beyond pointing out any obvious or glaring faults they're just going to tell you to have an inspector come out to verify it's condition so they shrug off that liability too.

If you knew as much as you thought you did, you'd realize that's because in an effort to protect the public from idiots who pretend to know more than they do, REALTORS are prevented from advising on topics outside the scope of their expertise. By law and by professional standards.

If you can't tell I'm not a big fan of realtors and I put their profession in the same category as lawyers and career politicians. I'd love to learn how you can keep them honest and accountable. Hopefully you're having better luck than I am.

It helps by not insulting them before you get to know one.

 

[88GT]

If an agent is representing both parties, they have to get written consent from both parties or they are breaking the law.

What happened?

That consent is usually obtained in the agency disclosures that Realtors should be having their clients sign at the very first meeting.

It's also obtained from the seller when the seller signs the listing agreement, provided the listing agreement is an IAR standard listing form.

However, I still remind both parties of the situation and request consent again.

 

[teddy12b]

It helps by not insulting them before you get to know one.

I know a few. I have an uncle who is a realtor and the other guy I used has used several times by family members to buy & sell houses. Maybe they were just bad, even though one of them was one of the highest earning realtors in NE IN.

Not trying to completely bash realtors, but lets call it what it is. If I find the house online, and negotiate the price then what value did they add besides knowing the combination to the lock on the door and knowing what papers to have me sign that were generated for them to hand out by the company they work for.

You can be mad at me all you want and we'll just have to agree to disagree on this but I just don't see what value they add to the process that merits 3%. If it was a $500 to $1,000 fee I'd say it's much more reasonable, but when they do nothing other than help me into a house and I have to do the rest, I don't feel like they've worked hard enough to earn my money.

 

[hooky]

I know a few. I have an uncle who is a realtor and the other guy I used has used several times by family members to buy & sell houses. Maybe they were just bad, even though one of them was one of the highest earning realtors in NE IN.

Not trying to completely bash realtors, but lets call it what it is. If I find the house online, and negotiate the price then what value did they add besides knowing the combination to the lock on the door and knowing what papers to have me sign that were generated for them to hand out by the company they work for.

You can be mad at me all you want and we'll just have to agree to disagree on this but I just don't see what value they add to the process that merits 3%. If it was a $500 to $1,000 fee I'd say it's much more reasonable, but when they do nothing other than help me into a house and I have to do the rest, I don't feel like they've worked hard enough to earn my money.

If that's the case, then take the "weekend class" as you mentioned above and do it all yourself. You'll save yourself the 3.5%. Or you can negotiate a reduced fee for it all up front with an agreeable Realtor or more likely a broker.

 

[88GT]

I know a few. I have an uncle who is a realtor and the other guy I used has used several times by family members to buy & sell houses. Maybe they were just bad, even though one of them was one of the highest earning realtors in NE IN.

Not trying to completely bash realtors, but lets call it what it is. If I find the house online, and negotiate the price then what value did they add besides knowing the combination to the lock on the door and knowing what papers to have me sign that were generated for them to hand out by the company they work for.

You can be mad at me all you want and we'll just have to agree to disagree on this but I just don't see what value they add to the process that merits 3%. If it was a $500 to $1,000 fee I'd say it's much more reasonable, but when they do nothing other than help me into a house and I have to do the rest, I don't feel like they've worked hard enough to earn my money.

I know a few more than you. And I know better than to say the few jackwagons and idiots with whom I've done business across the years represent the entirety of the pool of REALTORS.

And you didn't pay them a dime.

I've never negotiated the price for any of my clients. It's not my job. You have a mistaken idea of the role of a real estate broker if you thats what you think.

Lots of buyers find the house they eventually buy themselves. It's actually the norm now. The prevalence of online listings had re-organized the process a bit. Consumers prefer the ability to look online without the filter of a real estate licensee. I can't remember the last time I represented a buyer who didn't already have a list of homes he wanted to see.

There's a story of an engineer, a very good engineer who knew his stuff. He was able to retire a bit earlier than the norm and his company was sorry to see him go. About 6 weeks after his retirement, it became apparent that his company needed his experience and knowledge for a very particular problem they were having. He warned them that his bill would be high. Fine, they said. No price was too much to pay for the work they knew they'd get from him. After all, none of the other remaining employees had been able to solve the problem. So he came in, studied the problem, looked over the machine, took out a piece of chalk, and said, "You need to ________ at this chalk mark." And he proceeded to mark the machine with the chalk.

The company was thrilled. They could see immediately how this would solve the problem and were a bit humbled that none of them had thought of it.

Thrilled until the bill came. $1 million. What? When they questioned the former employee, he said it was quite simple. $1 for the chalk piece and $999,999 for knowing where to put the line.

*****

Did YOU know the combo to the lock on the home?

 

[88GT]

If that's the case, then take the "weekend class" as you mentioned above and do it all yourself. You'll save yourself the 3.5%. Or you can negotiate a reduced fee for it all up front with an agreeable Realtor or more likely a broker.

He isn't paying them.

 

[hooky]

He isn't paying them.

I know, but why let facts get in the way?

 

[teddy12b]

If that's the case, then take the "weekend class" as you mentioned above and do it all yourself. You'll save yourself the 3.5%. Or you can negotiate a reduced fee for it all up front with an agreeable Realtor or more likely a broker.

Because there's only so many hours in the day. I don't have enough time to do everything out there to save me money and still have time to take care of my full time job and family. If I did, I'd also be a plumber, electrician, etc. I don't care for used car salesmen either, but they're a necessary evil also. I'm not trying to say realtors don't have a place, they do, its just not worth 3.5% if all they do is unlock the door and fill out the same old routine paperwork.

 

[teddy12b]

Wow, all the experienced realtors here and you're sure I didn't pay anything for realtor fees. I guess that wasn't a factor for the sellers of the houses I've bought and it wasn't a factor in setting the prices for the houses I've sold either. Then again why let facts get in the way. I guess using that flawed logic Obamas stimulus didn't cost us anything either. Whatever, I guess if I were a full of BS realtor I'd buy your logic.

 

[88GT]

Wow, all the experienced realtors here and you're sure I didn't pay anything for realtor fees. I guess that wasn't a factor for the sellers of the houses I've bought and it wasn't a factor in setting the prices for the houses I've sold either. Then again why let facts get in the way. I guess using that flawed logic Obamas stimulus didn't cost us anything either. Whatever, I guess if I were a full of BS realtor I'd buy your logic.

Aaaaaaand that's how I know I'm right. Instead of a logical rebuttal you resort to ad hominem attacks on my intelligence, integrity and reputation.

As the buyer, you pay for the house and any loan. Did you write a check to a real estate brokerage? Did your HUD-1 form show a debit to your account of any fees paid directly to a real estate brokerage? It's possible. It's been done. But I'm doubting that's what you did.

As a buyer, you pay for the house and the loan to finance, if any. You pay only what it's value is to you. If you think the asking price is artificially inflated by the seller to cover the costs HE pays to sell the home, then you adjust your offer down accordingly. If the seller accepts, fine. If not, no dice, and you don't get the home.

If, on the other hand, you pay what the seller is asking--or something close to it--and you believe that the price reflects the cost to pay the REALTOR(s) involved, then by definition, you have paid what you thought it was worth to have those REALTOR(s) involved.

The flipside is a $100K home is a $100K home whether the seller uses a REALTOR or not. And it won't sell for $110 just because the seller wants to get the full equity at the end of the day.

 

[88GT]

Because there's only so many hours in the day. I don't have enough time to do everything out there to save me money and still have time to take care of my full time job and family. If I did, I'd also be a plumber, electrician, etc. I don't care for used car salesmen either, but they're a necessary evil also. I'm not trying to say realtors don't have a place, they do, its just not worth 3.5% if all they do is unlock the door and fill out the same old routine paperwork.

Nobody is saying there aren't worthless REALTORS. But who's fault is it if you decide to work with one of them?

 

[Benny]

I know a few more than you. And I know better than to say the few jackwagons and idiots with whom I've done business across the years represent the entirety of the pool of REALTORS.

Hmm, I bet that word in all caps can be interchangeable with a profession or two we dispute on here.