Refusing to do CPR

[MrsGungho]

Wait. I didn't think they even taught "give breaths" anymore... just chest compressions. No?

and that shows you how out of touch I am. I had no clue that CPR was just chest compressions now or that it was better than not doing it at all.
Even at that, She was a big woman and I couldn't have gotten her out of that car without hurting myself. I watched the EMT's struggle with her.

 

[indoorsoccerfrea]

I got re-certified in June for CPR as I work as a lifeguard during summers, and we were taught rescue breaths, at the rate of 2 breaths to every thirty compression when performing it yourself.

 

[public servant]

Sorry...I have an affliction to hepatitis. If it was my loved one...I'd do the CPR myself. If it's a stranger...and not a child...they are on their own. Not trying to sound cold...just honest.

But...I generally have a micro-shield close. If I do...they are in luck. But honestly...CPR alone saves very few people. Advanced life support is the key.

 

[ATM]

I'd feel a lot better about a person who stopped and took at least a minimal course of action than those who walked past and did nothing.

 

[JetGirl]

No mouth-to-mouth required in new CPR rules - Heart health- msnbc.com

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

As long as you do not represent yourself as a medical authority (EMT, paramedic or doctor) you have no legal obligation to act.

If you do announce you are whatever , you'd better get everything right or else risk opening yourself or department up for a lawsuit .

On the flip side , I THINK ( as in I don't remember) , even if you are a trained professional you could've refused to do CPR due to lack of PPE .

 

[public servant]

If you do announce you are whatever , you'd better get everything right or else risk opening yourself or department up for a lawsuit .

On the flip side , I THINK ( as in I don't remember) , even if you are a trained professional you could've refused to do CPR due to lack of PPE .

This is why you don't wear volunteer firemen t-shirts and keep your mouth shut.

 

[indoorsoccerfrea]

No mouth-to-mouth required in new CPR rules - Heart health- msnbc.com

Maybe it has changed since I got certified during the summer...

OP, you did well. Don't beat yourself up. You reacted to a situation within your skill level, you could not have done more without possible risk to yourself or the woman.

 

[MrsGungho]

How would you people feel if that was your loved one there , and someone refused cpr?

While I understand where you are coming from, I have to say I would be thankful for what was done, not look at what wasn't done.

Any medical personal here. please answer me this
She was slumped to the right, her hands and nail beds were blue, the right side of her face was blue, left side pale, no pulse, no breathing. Further than that I couldn't see because of clothing. Had she been there for a good amount of time before I walked up?

 

[Rotor Talker]

While I understand where you are coming from, I have to say I would be thankful for what was done, not look at what wasn't done.

Any medical personal here. please answer me this
She was slumped to the right, her hands and nail beds were blue, the right side of her face was blue, left side pale, no pulse, no breathing. Further than that I couldn't see because of clothing. Had she been there for a good amount of time before I walked up?

Based on what you describe, I'd say she had been there a while, maybe quite a while, when they removed her from the vehicle were any of her extremities rigid in shape, meaning elbow bent, not moving, that is a sign of rigormortis, meaning she had been there a really long time. It's anybody's guess what could have caused her to pass away, but it sounds to me she'd been gone quite a while, probably pushing 45 mins to an hour or more.

 

[iamaclone45]

While I understand where you are coming from, I have to say I would be thankful for what was done, not look at what wasn't done.

Any medical personal here. please answer me this
She was slumped to the right, her hands and nail beds were blue, the right side of her face was blue, left side pale, no pulse, no breathing. Further than that I couldn't see because of clothing. Had she been there for a good amount of time before I walked up?

Yeah my "guesstimation" would be pretty close to 60minutes atleast (if not much much more), especially with the variation in color to the face. Sounds like the blood was already starting to settle and pool. If she was cold and exhibited signs of rigor mortis and showed asystole on the monitor we would have called it right there and notified the coroner.

 

[MrsGungho]

Based on what you describe, I'd say she had been there a while, maybe quite a while, when they removed her from the vehicle were any of her extremities rigid in shape, meaning elbow bent, not moving, that is a sign of rigormortis, meaning she had been there a really long time. It's anybody's guess what could have caused her to pass away, but it sounds to me she'd been gone quite a while, probably pushing 45 mins to an hour or more.

I was watching but not watching close enough to notice rigormortis or not. they had her head and shoulders on the backboard pulling her out when I turned away for the last time. The first officer on scene took me to his car away from her once EMT's arrived and took all of my info, what happened etc. As far as her body temp, I do remember my hands were cold and I didn't notice a difference in temperature when I checked for a pulse. I honestly can't say if there was or not.
When I came out of menards the officers were still there going through her car and the ambulance was gone. I was inside maybe 15-20 minutes. Thank you for answering that. I thought I had remembered correctly about the settling and pooling issue, just wasn't sure how long that meant. I was thinking maybe 15-20 minutes, like I said though it's been 10+ years.

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

This is why you don't wear volunteer firemen t-shirts and keep your mouth shut.

Seems to be a good remedy for quite a few things now days .

 

[Joe Williams]

She was long dead. CPR wouldn't have done any good, anyway. All you would have done is exposed yourself to any diseases she may have had, to no gain.

 

[fire1035]

How would you people feel if that was your loved one there , and someone refused cpr?

Not to badly. Asking someone to try and do CPR is ridiculous. And yes as a dispatcher you are trained to try to get a bystander to do CPR. You have cards to read off of to guide them through it. I always HATED asking people to do CPR over the phone. Hell I don't like doing it in person. If it's an older person all you are doing is damage to them more often than not. How often does an 80 year old woman want to come out of their coma with a bunch of broken ribs? No thanks, I'll just die.

 

[Bill of Rights]

I got re-certified in June for CPR as I work as a lifeguard during summers, and we were taught rescue breaths, at the rate of 2 breaths to every thirty compression when performing it yourself.

As a lifeguard, you're considered a "professional rescuer"... you get taught to give breaths. John Q. Public does not.

How would you people feel if that was your loved one there , and someone refused cpr?

Not nearly as bad as I would feel if my loved ones were watching me die of Hepatitis B or something equally nasty from doing that.

While I understand where you are coming from, I have to say I would be thankful for what was done, not look at what wasn't done.

Any medical personal here. please answer me this
She was slumped to the right, her hands and nail beds were blue, the right side of her face was blue, left side pale, no pulse, no breathing. Further than that I couldn't see because of clothing. Had she been there for a good amount of time before I walked up?

I would bet so, yes. You did right.

I don`t even know what a trolling post is! Is the better not have been some sort of threat?

A trolling post is a post designed to "fish" for reactions. As to your question, it probably wasn't so much a threat from VUPDBlue... more like a promise that your time on INGO would be coming to a quick end if it was.

If it was not such a promise from him, I can guarantee you it is from me.

Again, Mrs. Gungho... you did right. Thanks for getting involved.

Blessings,
Bill
EMT-P

 

[Bill of Rights]

Not to badly. Asking someone to try and do CPR is ridiculous. And yes as a dispatcher you are trained to try to get a bystander to do CPR. You have cards to read off of to guide them through it. I always HATED asking people to do CPR over the phone. Hell I don't like doing it in person. If it's an older person all you are doing is damage to them more often than not. How often does an 80 year old woman want to come out of their coma with a bunch of broken ribs? No thanks, I'll just die.

Common misconception. It's just cartilege, not broken bones, but it sounds really disgusting if you aren't expecting it.

What I used to tell people when I taught CPR a million years ago was that the patient would vomit and the rescuer would "break ribs" (yes, with air quotes ) when doing CPR. If either one didn't happen, they'd be pleasantly surprised. If they did happen, the rescuer would be expecting it.

Regardless, we still taught that you use a mask/shield/barrier of some type. Every time, unless the patient is, God forbid, a member of your family. You presumably know where their mouth has been.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[fire1035]

Yep, still broken, still hurts, still don't like doing it.

 

[Bill of Rights]

Yep, still broken, still hurts, still don't like doing it.

Meh. I look at it like they may die if I do this. They will definitely die if I don't. On the off chance that I get someone back and they have a chance to say good bye to those they love and that love them... I'll risk the cartilege.

I just posted the correction so no one else would hesitate for fear of that.

To each his own.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[glock 27]

As a lifeguard, you're considered a "professional rescuer"... you get taught to give breaths. John Q. Public does not.



Not nearly as bad as I would feel if my loved ones were watching me die of Hepatitis B or something equally nasty from doing that.



I would bet so, yes. You did right.



A trolling post is a post designed to "fish" for reactions. As to your question, it probably wasn't so much a threat from VUPDBlue... more like a promise that your time on INGO would be coming to a quick end if it was.

If it was not such a promise from him, I can guarantee you it is from me.

Again, Mrs. Gungho... you did right. Thanks for getting involved.

Blessings,
Bill
EMT-P

I really don`t care about a quick end to this sight! I have already apoligized to the person this happened to. (through a pm) For my comment that was taken out of context by the rest of you, and iv`e already thanked Mrs. Gungho for getting involved! So have a nice day!