Registries/List/ ect

[Keyser Soze]

Pseudophedrine limits, and registry have been discussed before and it seemed most were not in favor of any type of registry/restrictions.

What about restrictions for sex offenders once they have been released? What about the tracking/registering of violent and sex offenders. Do you consider this to be cruel and usual punishment?

 

[rambone]

Yes.

It doesn't achieve what they want it to achieve either. Lists don't stop people from victimizing people. Its progressive, feel-good legislation.

 

[Love the 1911]

Its progressive, feel-good legislation.

What legislation isn't these days? I can't remember the last law that changed us for the better. Property tax cap?

 

[Fletch]

Pseudophedrine limits, and registry have been discussed before and it seemed most were not in favor of any type of registry/restrictions.

What about restrictions for sex offenders once they have been released? What about the tracking/registering of violent and sex offenders. Do you consider this to be cruel and usual punishment?

It's not cruel and unusual, just stupid. If they're dangerous enough that we need to keep track of them, they shouldn't be released. If they are released, they should be released with as little marginalization as possible, because unsuccessful social reintegration is a strong indicator for recidivism.

 

[printcraft]

..... If they're dangerous enough that we need to keep track of them, they shouldn't be released.......

This.
They should be all classified as violent offenders and not released early or at all for that matter.
I don't have much sympathy - ok, I have no sympathy.

Where to get the room you ask? Parole the non violent offenders first.

 

[Eddie]

It's not cruel and unusual, just stupid. If they're dangerous enough that we need to keep track of them, they shouldn't be released. If they are released, they should be released with as little marginalization as possible, because unsuccessful social reintegration is a strong indicator for recidivism.

Very good post Fletch! Sex offenders are a tough case. Depending on the personality type they may not be able to stop their behavior any more than a normal person could stop having sex. Making them put a sign in their yard or register on a list doesn't mean that they want to stop offending. It does not attack the underlying problem.

Likewise making sudafed illegal doesn't make a meth user not want meth anymore. It will just make a cottage industry in stealing or illegally obtaining sudafed to sell to meth makers for big money. The price of meth will go up and people who want it might need to commit crimes to get the money to buy it.

 

[LPMan59]

Child molesting should be a capital offense

 

[jsharmon7]

Very good post Fletch! Sex offenders are a tough case. Depending on the personality type they may not be able to stop their behavior any more than a normal person could stop having sex. Making them put a sign in their yard or register on a list doesn't mean that they want to stop offending. It does not attack the underlying problem.

The sex offender registry also lumps all sex offenders together. Pedophiles have an extremely high recidivism rate compared to other types of offenders. How do we track them vs. other types of sex offenders? I guess the idea is to alert parents to be careful with their children around these folks, but that makes a lot of assumptions. Not every parent checks the registry, not every offender follows the laws regarding the registry, and parents should be careful with whom they allow around their children anyway.

To me, any type of "offender registry" is basically the modern scarlet letter.

 

[slackerisme]

I for one agree with stiffer penalties and I think the registry thing need to go away. Even someone that has done their time is follows and ridiculed for life, probably never able to do anything with their life again, why bother.

 

[E5RANGER375]

i think sex offenders who abuse children should be shot. i think if you commit these acts then you are ****ed up in the head beyond repair. there is no sense in allowing you to live among society ever again. one bullet to the dome.

 

[Eddie]

i think sex offenders who abuse children should be shot. i think if you commit these acts then you are ****ed up in the head beyond repair. there is no sense in allowing you to live among society ever again. one bullet to the dome.

That is actually a spot on true statement. Their sex drive is messed up. It drives them to want little kids and sometimes to do violence to them either because they get a sexual rush from the violence or because they want to kill the child to keep them from telling. They are extremely messed up compared to other types of criminals.

 

[Fletch]

i think sex offenders who abuse children should be shot. i think if you commit these acts then you are ****ed up in the head beyond repair. there is no sense in allowing you to live among society ever again. one bullet to the dome.

That is actually a spot on true statement. Their sex drive is messed up. It drives them to want little kids and sometimes to do violence to them either because they get a sexual rush from the violence or because they want to kill the child to keep them from telling. They are extremely messed up compared to other types of criminals.

You assume the offender is not also a child. Does it change your evaluation if they are?

 

[Eddie]

You assume the offender is not also a child. Does it change your evaluation if they are?

My short answer is no. Here is why:

There are different personality types, some of which there is some success at "curing". With regards to the more violent personalty types my understanding is that their sex drive is somehow contaminated by violence such that violant acts equate to the rush of sex for them.

The way is was explained to me, particularly in regards to most rapist personality types is that normal people fantasize about sex and normal people fantasize about violence. In other words it is normal to fantasize about the attractive woman that you saw in the store and it is normal to fantasize about punching your jerk boss in the nose. In certain personality types of rapists, the sexual fantasies and the violent fantasies become fused together and cannot separate back out again. Sex to them is violence and violence is sex. That is what makes them such a high risk of recidivism.

One example that I was given is that of someone trying to explain to a straight man that what he is doing is wrong and that he should be gay instead. In other words punishing some of these violent sex offenders doesn't make them stop wanting to rape. They are hard wired in their brain to want to do it and we have not yet figured out how to unwire them.

So my "No" answer above is that even if the offender is also a child, if they are a child that has become hard wired to rape and hurt other children then no amount of compassion will get them to change. If on the other hand there is someday a medical breakthrough that changes this then my opinion might change.

 

[Fletch]

My short answer is no. Here is why:

There are different personality types, some of which there is some success at "curing". With regards to the more violent personalty types my understanding is that their sex drive is somehow contaminated by violence such that violant acts equate to the rush of sex for them.

The way is was explained to me, particularly in regards to most rapist personality types is that normal people fantasize about sex and normal people fantasize about violence. In other words it is normal to fantasize about the attractive woman that you saw in the store and it is normal to fantasize about punching your jerk boss in the nose. In certain personality types of rapists, the sexual fantasies and the violent fantasies become fused together and cannot separate back out again. Sex to them is violence and violence is sex. That is what makes them such a high risk of recidivism.

One example that I was given is that of someone trying to explain to a straight man that what he is doing is wrong and that he should be gay instead. In other words punishing some of these violent sex offenders doesn't make them stop wanting to rape. They are hard wired in their brain to want to do it and we have not yet figured out how to unwire them.

So my "No" answer above is that even if the offender is also a child, if they are a child that has become hard wired to rape and hurt other children then no amount of compassion will get them to change. If on the other hand there is someday a medical breakthrough that changes this then my opinion might change.

Now there's an assumption that the drive to molestation must necessarily carry with it a violent component, when it's really easy to imagine a situation where this is not the case.

There's also the assumption that one's sex drive cannot require violence without necessarily being criminal, an assumption with which the BDSM community would vehemently disagree.

 

[Bond 281]

My short answer is no. Here is why:

There are different personality types, some of which there is some success at "curing". With regards to the more violent personalty types my understanding is that their sex drive is somehow contaminated by violence such that violant acts equate to the rush of sex for them.

The way is was explained to me, particularly in regards to most rapist personality types is that normal people fantasize about sex and normal people fantasize about violence. In other words it is normal to fantasize about the attractive woman that you saw in the store and it is normal to fantasize about punching your jerk boss in the nose. In certain personality types of rapists, the sexual fantasies and the violent fantasies become fused together and cannot separate back out again. Sex to them is violence and violence is sex. That is what makes them such a high risk of recidivism.

One example that I was given is that of someone trying to explain to a straight man that what he is doing is wrong and that he should be gay instead. In other words punishing some of these violent sex offenders doesn't make them stop wanting to rape. They are hard wired in their brain to want to do it and we have not yet figured out how to unwire them.

So my "No" answer above is that even if the offender is also a child, if they are a child that has become hard wired to rape and hurt other children then no amount of compassion will get them to change. If on the other hand there is someday a medical breakthrough that changes this then my opinion might change.

I don't think he meant violent rape. I think what he was going for is something like an incident where two kids do something consensual but the male takes the blame for some crime because some irate dad caused an uproar. Kids are having sex at a very young age these days and I do see how a case like this can arise.

Another issue with being extremely severe is how many women cry rape when sex was consensual. While that may not be the majority of cases it happens often enough to give pause. Men's lives get ruined by charges like that even if acquitted.

I think that basically the registry serves no real purpose, nor do pseudophedrine limits.

 

[88GT]

The sex offender registry also lumps all sex offenders together. Pedophiles have an extremely high recidivism rate compared to other types of offenders. How do we track them vs. other types of sex offenders? I guess the idea is to alert parents to be careful with their children around these folks, but that makes a lot of assumptions. Not every parent checks the registry, not every offender follows the laws regarding the registry, and parents should be careful with whom they allow around their children anyway.

To me, any type of "offender registry" is basically the modern scarlet letter.

Why bother?

I have a sneaky suspicion less than half* of the registrants actually reside at the address they provide for the registry.



*Not based on anything other than my gut feeling.

 

[Eddie]

Now there's an assumption that the drive to molestation must necessarily carry with it a violent component, when it's really easy to imagine a situation where this is not the case.

There's also the assumption that one's sex drive cannot require violence without necessarily being criminal, an assumption with which the BDSM community would vehemently disagree.

I was careful to say "some" rather than "all" in my post. I am aware that there are non-violent personality types. I don't think that the BDSM crowd kills each other. I also acknowledge that some persons fall victim to status offenses and get convicted and punished on an arbitrary factor such as age rather than malicious intent. I would hope that these cases could be sorted out from the others.

 

[mcolford]

I feel sex offenders, upon moving into a neighborhood, should go door to door, with police escort, and notify EVERY household within a reasonable area that they are a sex offender, they committed "....." act, and should have a 4'x8' sign in their front yard. I feel the registry should be a little more specific as well, it is very vague.

I dont concern myself with the rights of an individual that violated a child, and stole their pureness!


-MColford

 

[Fletch]

I was careful to say "some" rather than "all" in my post.

So you did. Sorry about that.

I am aware that there are non-violent personality types. I don't think that the BDSM crowd kills each other.

My point was that violence is not always a factor in molestation, and that violence can be an essential part of one's sexual identity without being criminal. In other words, I'm saying that I think what you've been told about violence as associated with sexual deviance is oversimplified.

I also acknowledge that some persons fall victim to status offenses and get convicted and punished on an arbitrary factor such as age rather than malicious intent. I would hope that these cases could be sorted out from the others.

And this illustrates, I think, the crucial problem we face as a society with regard to criminal justice in general and this topic in particular. Hoping that such cases could be sorted out is one thing; taking the time to advocate on behalf of a more thorough, reasonable, and compassionate understanding of the problem is quite another. We have no shortage of people with a superficial understanding of what "sex offender" means, and who are quite happy to make stupid pronouncements about what should be done to anyone who acquires the label for any reason. What we need are more people who take the time to engage their brains before deciding they have the answers to all of society's problems.

 

[Bunnykid68]

Someone ever violates my children in such a manner there will be one trial....MINE for wasting the scumbag.