The logical conclusion of individual liberty is that it transcends governments and boundaries. The problem with that thinking now is that human nature is not compatible with a world with no borders. It's ideological pie-in-the-sky thinking. It will be a very long time before humans ever learn to override the problematic nature which borders currently solve. As long as there are different peoples, whose world views are incompatible, there will be a need for nations and borders. This is a major area where I part ideological company with Libertarians. They're so idealistic about this that they confuse their zeal for practicable policies.
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The logical conclusion of individual liberty is that it transcends governments and boundaries. The problem with that thinking now is that human nature is not compatible with a world with no borders. It's ideological pie-in-the-sky thinking. It will be a very long time before humans ever learn to override the problematic nature which borders currently solve. As long as there are different peoples, whose world views are incompatible, there will be a need for nations and borders. This is a major area where I part ideological company with Libertarians. They're so idealistic about this that they confuse their zeal for practicable policies.
Liberty requires responsibility in order for it to scale to society level. We're not responsible by nature. We have to do that on purpose. So the widest liberty we can achieve is for the pockets of liberty around the world in the places that can manage it. Unfortunately it has to be at least a little exclusive. The people have to be compatible with liberty or it'll devolve into tyranny. Kinda like it is in the US today.
It's reasonable for a nation to be selective of who it allows to immigrate. It's reasonable to impose immigration standards which would ensure compatibility with a free society.
You don't have a right to have the conversation you want. You do have a right to say what you want or decide to participate in the conversation or not. And other people have the same right.
"Libertarians want liberty" is a bit too banal to be informative. Unfortunately liberty is constrained by practicality even more than by tyrants. If it weren't the world would be free. It won't be free until it's practical. Logically, liberty looks great on paper, but then you run into other people who are incompatible with it. So we create borders. BECAUSE OF NEED.
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I am aware of this.
At this point in the thread, putting effort into posting anything informative would be an exercise in futility. I just make short posts to remind people that not everyone worships the state.
And our current "socialist"* programs regarding govt benefits are incompatible with open borders. Get rid of the "free s**t" for people and eliminate that incentive to come here for a handout and maybe. But we have too much invested in social programs. Until we do that, open borders will only encourage freeloaders.
*My leftist friends keep trying to convince me that many of our govt programs are socialist in an effort to push more socialism because obviously if THOSE socialist programs exist, then more socialism isnt bad.
*My leftist friends keep trying to convince me that many of our govt programs are socialist in an effort to push more socialism because obviously if THOSE socialist programs exist, then more socialism isnt bad.
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And math, although a programmer's command of that language is all to often superficial
And math, although a programmer's command of that language is all to often superficial
Depends. I use discrete math often enough. Set theory probably most. Maybe some boolean algebra if I have a really complicated logic problem to simplify. Some statistics. But use of math has become less important than before switching careers to software engineer. Most everything I work on is centered around data much more than numbers.
[video=youtube;X5iaZf21R8w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5iaZf21R8w[/video]
I don't think Libertarians want cheap labor but labor at the fair market value. Additionally, freedom to move about and work sure seems swell. I'm a supporter of open borders (vetted people free to travel and work) but I'd like to see social spending cut about 99% first. This arrangement would allow people to come and go, manufacturing nations would always have the number of employees necessary to be efficiently productive while paying an actual market price for skill. This to me just seems fair and best for consumers, workers and manufacturers.
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