Remembering the Pearl Harbor attack 75 years later.

[Trigger Time]

Right on!
Anyone who says that we don't like immigrants must be ignoring the fact that we would eagerly welcome people like Sylvain coming here.

Well hold on there. I didn't say I like all immigrants. Sylvain is special

 

[femurphy77]

I've only had an opportunity to watch the first 15 minutes of this video but wanted to put this here where I can find it for later. Little difficult to watch with all the dust in the room.

[video=youtube;xW_Isdz7_D4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xW_Isdz7_D4[/video]

 

[Sylvain]

Well hold on there. I didn't say I like all immigrants. Sylvain is special

 

[actaeon277]

Pearl Harbor: 16 Days To Die -- Trapped By The Memories -- Few Knew The Secret Of The Sunken Battleship; Families Weren't Told Of Sailors' Lingering Deaths


Business | Pearl Harbor: 16 Days To Die -- Trapped By The Memories -- Few Knew The Secret Of The Sunken Battleship; Families Weren't Told Of Sailors' Lingering Deaths | Seattle Times Newspaper

 

[88E30M50]

That's a sad, sobering story. 75 years ago, at this moment, those three sailors were still alive trapped in the West Virginia.

 

[actaeon277]

That's a sad, sobering story. 75 years ago, at this moment, those three sailors were still alive trapped in the West Virginia.

Sometimes help is 35 feet away, and might as well be on the other side of the moon.

 

[actaeon277]

Sometimes help is 35 feet away, and might as well be on the other side of the moon.

Or 130 feet of water.
(Imagine being topside, on the surface, and not being able to help someone 130 feet away.)

It was aboard S-1 Momsen's attention became drawn to the urgent need for a way to rescue trapped submariners.[1]

On September 25, 1925, S-1's sister ship, S-51 (SS-162), collided with freighter City of Rome in the vicinity of Block Island and sank in 130 feet (40 m) of water. Momsen was ordered to take S-1 to search for the crippled submarine. S-1 found the oil slick marking the spot where S-51 had sunk, but without any sonar, there was no way for his crew to locate her on the bottom, nor was there a way for trapped crewmen to escape.

 

[Sylvain]

One year bump!

Southout to our INGO Navy vets.

[video=youtube;4L27xuf2d20]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4L27xuf2d20[/video]

Lest we forget.

 

[Sylvain]

 

[actaeon277]

In peace, prepare for war.

No one was attacked for being strong.
They were attacked because someone viewed them as weak enough to attack.

 

[NKBJ]

We're dogs thrown in the pit.
Debating over whether or not to fight isn't an option.

 

[Bennettjh]

 

[Thor]

Just finished watching Tora! Tora! Tora! with the family. It took a bit of cajoling to get them to bypass their standard fare but they all immediately became involved and liked the show (though they are now looking forward to Midway because they want to win one), it helps that history is one of their strong points.

Daughter commented that there is no way that would have been rated G today. She said there was too much stuff that makes movies good in it...and none of the stuff that makes movies bad.

 

[Thor]

Southout to our INGO Navy vets.

Well...the army was there too...just FYI...

 

[actaeon277]

Navy photos show Pearl Harbor compared with attack - Business Insider
The Navy made incredible photos to show present-day Pearl Harbor compared with the day of the attack

 

[Sylvain]

Well...the army was there too...just FYI...

I know.No disrespect intended by only mentioning the Navy.
You just mainly thing of the Navy when you think about the attack on Pearl Harbor, I do anyway.
There was civilian casualties as well.

How many people died at Pearl Harbor during the attack? The total number of military personnel killed was 2,335, including 2,008 navy personnel, 109 marines, and 218 army. Added to this were 68 civilians, making the total 2403 people dead. 1,177 were from the USS Arizona.

Almost as many as the number of casualties of the 9/11 attacks by the way (2,974).To put things in perspective.

 

[churchmouse]

Thanks for the bump French guy.

 

[femurphy77]

I read a pretty good article the other day outlining why it was a mistake for the Japanese to attack Pearl Harbor. It basically stated that if the attack had not occurred, even with the Japanese aggression taking place elsewhere in the Pacific that the impact would be so minimal to U.S. interests that even if the U.S. had been drawn into the conflict it wouldn't have been near the effort that was undertaken to avenge the attack on Pearl Harbor. The conclusion was that sometimes the best course of action is no action. Not being a military historian it seemed plausible to assume the war in the Pacific would have played out much differently had the Japanese maintained their concentration in the western Pacific.

Who knows, there might still be a LOT of meatballs flying over various Pacific islands to this day!

 

[actaeon277]

I read a pretty good article the other day outlining why it was a mistake for the Japanese to attack Pearl Harbor. It basically stated that if the attack had not occurred, even with the Japanese aggression taking place elsewhere in the Pacific that the impact would be so minimal to U.S. interests that even if the U.S. had been drawn into the conflict it wouldn't have been near the effort that was undertaken to avenge the attack on Pearl Harbor. The conclusion was that sometimes the best course of action is no action. Not being a military historian it seemed plausible to assume the war in the Pacific would have played out much differently had the Japanese maintained their concentration in the western Pacific.

Who knows, there might still be a LOT of meatballs flying over various Pacific islands to this day!

Well, some things to look at that might be reasons.

Russo-Japanese War 1904-1905. First time an Asian nation defeated a European one. Gave the Russians a big bloody nose.

The USA was "interfering" in their business of trying to establish their "sphere of influence".

The USA, aside from having a strong Navy, was viewed as being militarily weak.
Very small Army. Outdated models of tanks. Not even enough small arms to fully equip it's infantry with modern rifles. Units often practiced with sticks. The M1 Garand was still just coming online.
Almost non-existent Air Corp. Outdated tanks and airplanes, and in small numbers.

The USA was viewed as having a weakness, in that we came from different races and nations. That was viewed as a liability.

We were viewed as being "soft" and "decadent". And would make bad soldiers/sailors/airmen. We would give up easily, and not be able to take the harshness of a war environment. We did not follow the Bushido.

Japanese were used to dealing with "peasants". Apply some force, and they expected us to "back off". I don't think they really thought about invasion. It was more of a slap across the face saying, back off or there's more where this came from.



At least in my opinion, these were factors.

 

[Brad69]

So I was privileged to grow up with a next door neighbor that was a extremely rare ww1,ww2,Korea Navy veteran he joined the Navy at 17 in 1917 he served on the USS Delaware doing crap work and hating life. He reenlisted and served in the pacific fleet.
This dude had some stories to tell about China in the 1920’s. He had no children so I had a crazy kinda uncle who drank Hamms beer.
So I guess he was kinda pissed to get assigned to the USS Pyro an ammo ship nice name! He was like the 2nd in charge NCO of the ship no idea what that means In the Navy. On 7 December he said most of the crew was hanging out in the barracks on shore on the Captain was hanging around no other officers were present. They were about half empty of ammo all small arms were gone just the big stuff left.
He said they were on “shore power” I don’t really know what that means and the cooks were mad about fans being broken?
He was hanging out on the front of the ship he heard “lots of planes” then they started shooting and dropped bombs. They got what guns they had running before most of the ships. The ammo was not locked like in the movies on the ship he said.
The rest of the war he spent running ammo boring.
During the Korean War he Was on the Iowa.

He said he worked like a slave in WW 1

Was in the opening shots of WW 2 then spent the rest of the war moving ammo.

Shot more rounds and experienced more combat in Korea that all other wars combined.

He was forced to retire in the mid sixties!