Remington Under Fire: A CNBC Investigation

[jrh84]

Lawyer

Did anyone else get an "ambulance chaser" vibe from the lawyer? Gave me the creeps. Other than that, as much as I hate to say it, they made some compelling points. I'm still mostly siding with Remington, though. I would like to have seen more from the police units that made the videos. Any trigger mods/work, maintenance, cleaning, round count, etc?

CNBC certainly didn't help sway anyone with any knowledge of the 4 rules with the reporter holding the rifle with his finger on the trigger and muzzle pointed at his foot in the intro.

 

[sean2999]

yeah the video is damning, and for all I know there could be an issue with the rifles I have never owned or shot that model before. and I do feel for this family who lost there son. but here is my question why was mom "unloading" a rifle with the barrel facing her child? That sounds like an irresponsible gun owner/parent to me.

 

[sean2999]

I noticed the finger on the trigger.. I was waiting for that to be posted on youtube...but i wouldnt hand some reporter who for all I know has never handled a gun before, a loaded gun.

 

[brotherbill3]

This is just step 1 in proving to anti gunners that guns go off on their own and it's dangerous to have one in public.

I feel bad for the victims of the shots, but if the muzzle was ALWAYS pointed in a safe direction, ESPECIALLY if it is known to be loaded. *shakes head* There ARE reason for safe firearm practices...

Even when I'm not touching it, my firearms are pointed away from anyone in the house.

I have to agree. My Dad and I are "Living Proof" of this. ...
When I was 12 (in PA the minimum age) I started hunting - I used my dad's Mossberg 185K 20 ga. BOLT action shotgun ... we'd hunt doves for a few hours, stalk around the woods scouting deer, and then hunt doves again later in the day. I would generally always be 'following him' ... 4 yrs go by with many a shot fired, a few doves later ... we are out after I am 16. Now I am carrying my own 870, and my dad is again carrying his Mossberg; after another day of stalking we come out of the woods. A few doves go up, he shoots, I shoot, and he shoots again. I could see him out of the corner of my eye.

Me: "Dad, you never took the safety off" (after 4 yrs of using it and manipulating it ... I could tell that he didn't take it off)...

He puts the safety ON ... point the gun in a safe direction ... and "BANG" ... (yup ... bad safety) ... our day is OVER.

As we walk UNLOADED to the car his only comment:
"Well, I know that you know how to carry a gun safely" ... (because for 4 yrs, I carried that gun following him and it NEVER went off by accident.) ... the most important safety is the one between our ears.

Sorry CNBC ... I don't buy the story - or others - if a gun goes off, there is a reason - or a malfunction. ... and if its a malfunction ... GET IT FIXED. (oh yeah - that's where the mossberg went the next day!!)

 

[sean2999]

Guns point down range!

 

[Gunaria]

It's on again in 15 minutes.

 

[Blue Tile Spook]

Wifey watched this program with me tonight. Her first comment was, "I feel sorry that the kid died, and I feel sorry for the parents losing a child."

Her second comment was, "She broke one of the four rules."

Whether or not the 700 has a design flaw or not, I saw the pics on the show of injuries sustained by various people over the years, and it seems that many people are not practicing the four safety rules. If Remington has a design flaw I hope they get it quickly solved.

 

[KevinC]

This has been a well known issue with the 700 for a long long long time. It's a firearm and it should be treated as such. The safest gun still requires maintenance and is truly only as safe as the person whom has it in their grasp.

My name is Kevin and I work directly with Remington. We encourage you and everyone concerned to see our side of the story at Remington.

I hope this helps address some of the confusion.

Thank you for your time.

Kevin

 

[Chance]

My own test

Remington 700 BDL, 30-06 just picked it up on Saturday. Made sure it was unloaded, closed the bolt , safety off.....using nylon mallet to tap back of bolt, bolt handle, etc.

Guess what....NOTHING HAPPENED.

I am sure that any news report is based on a test that is well documented and repeatable. Let someone competent check out the guns and test them. Bet you won't see that happening.

More "trash" on the national news.

 

[jrh84]

In the mother's defense...

In her defense (I forget her name), she thought she was following the 4 rules. I think I remember that the gun went off, firing through a camper/horse trailer door, and striking the kid who was (unknowingly to her) on the other side of the trailer.

Should she have pointed it towards the ground instead of into/at the trailer? Yes. Did she intend to point the muzzle towards something she wasn't willing to destroy? I don't believe so.

If you watched the rest of the show and the interview with the father and her, I really think they were safety-conscious people. They knew gun safety and thought they were following all the rules. Still a negligent discharge (no such thing as an accident, ever), but I can't fully blame careless or reckless gun handling if the story really went down how it was portrayed. It's just an unfortunate situation no matter the details.

Regardless, I'm still supporting Remington. I don't own any Remington firearms at the moment, but I'm working on it I do hope if there was/is a problem, they stand behind their product and make it right. I believe they will. They should know their unique consumer base will turn from them in a heartbeat if they don't. I work in an industry that has a similar loyal customer base that realizes that products can't be perfect 100% of the time, but as long as the company stands behind it, they'll continue to come back and stay loyal to the brand.

The father seemed reasonable, so I kept wanting/expecting him to say "I'd like Remington to make this right, and once they do, encourage everyone to go out and buy a Remington product." Once he gets what he thinks is right, I think he would. It just doesn't seem like the guy is wanting to see Remington go down in flames like some folks in this situation would. CNBC on the other hand.....

 

[esrice]

Remember how we keep telling you guys how there are lots and lots of people outside of Indiana that pay attention to INGO on a regular basis?

Here is one example. Remington contacted us directly.

The following message was sent to you via the INGunOwners Contact Us form by Remington

--------------------------------

For nearly fifty years, the Remington Model 700 rifle has been the preferred choice for millions of hunters, shooting sports enthusiasts and military and law enforcement personnel. For Remington’s response to CNBC, visit www.Remington700.tv.

Remington Arms Company, Inc.

--------------------------------

Obviously, I've left out the company's contact info, but it did come directly from them.

 

[pdg45acp]

For me it doesn't pass the smell test for 3 reasons

#1 The source is directly connected to a notorious anti-gun news network, NBC. Ask yourself why anti-gun nuts would suddenly become interested in firearms and their safe use? On top of that NBC has a history of "doctoring" their so called test results.

#2 I've got a 28 year old Remington 700 ADL in .308 that I've shot (at) a lot of animals with. I also used it in several so called "Sniper" matches at a place called Deer Creek. Back the late 80s and early 90s I would shoot it at least once a week just blasting/practicing at the range. I think it's got 6k+ rounds through it. This gun has never discharged when the bolt is touched or when the safety is simply released.

#3 I've got a 22 year old Remington 700 Varmint Special in .223 that has destroyed probably 2500 PDogs along with uncounted ground hogs, cans and paper targets. This gun still shoots 3/4 moa 5 shot groups with my handloads. This gun has ever discharged when the bolt is touched or when the safety is simply released.

There may be a defective Remington 700 or two out there, they sold millions of them so the odds of a few defects are pretty good. There is not a problem will all Remington 700s or I would see that problem in my two guns.

 

[arma73]

I have a REM 700 in 22-250, No issues performed flawlessly .

 

[BE Mike]

My name is Kevin and I work directly with Remington. We encourage you and everyone concerned to see our side of the story at Remington.

I hope this helps address some of the confusion.

Thank you for your time.

Kevin

Hi Kevin. Welcome to the forum. I viewed all that your company had to offer in response to the news report regarding the model 700. I also watched the entire news report. I see nothing that refutes Mr. Walker's statements that there was a problem with his design and his fix for it which the company ignored. I see where your company attempts to plant a seed of doubt as to the integrity of law enforcement officers who used the design on video where the rifles discharged without the trigger being manipulated. I see where Remington attempts to raise questions of credibility of thousands of complaints of end-users having the weapon discharge without the manipulation of the trigger. To me this is corporate denial and nothing more. I am a Remington consumer and a life member of the NRA for decades. I remain unconvinced that the Model 700 rifle has had no problems with accidental discharges due to it's design. I am also unconvinced that Remington has used diligence in investigating the matter. If I am unconvinced, I'm sure that you are going to have a hard time convincing the general public.

 

[E5RANGER375]

i think this is getting blown out of porportion. i will bet my life on a 700 anyday. one of the best firearms ever made, and LOTS of enemies of the U.S. bit the dust at the end of them too.

 

[tenring]

I have an ADL in '06 that was purchased in the '70s, after free floating the barrel, bedding the action, and have a local gunsmith "alter" the trigger to 2 lbs. [oh my gawd], I have fired hundreds of "some what warm" loads through it, and with no problems. I am well aware of the taking the firearm off safe in order to unload, and practice that religiously each and ever time I have used it to hunt, and it is always pointed to the heavens when doing that, not at a trailer that someone might be on the other side. Have a newer 700 with the new system, and know how to operate it also, but then I do have a Jewel replacement in a .223 [sorry 'bout that Remington] that one does not even sneeze when you finger is even near the trigger. Am I going to send the old ADL in for a replacement trigger? Hell no, I wouldn't get my 2 pounder back.

 

[snorko]

One thing I noteiced in the video of the police "sniper" and the faulty rifle. He pulls the trigger, says"no fire" then pushes the bolt and it discharges.

So he PULLS THE TRIGGER, then pushed the bolt. Obviously there is something out of tune here.

 

[Walter Zoomie]

It happened to me.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/1196647-post17.html

 

[CountryBoy19]

i think this is getting blown out of porportion. i will bet my life on a 700 anyday. one of the best firearms ever made, and LOTS of enemies of the U.S. bit the dust at the end of them too.

I don't think anyone is saying anything to the contrary. What is being said is that there is a design flaw in the trigger mechanism that occasionally rears it's ugly head and causes the rifle to fire without the trigger being pulled.

It happened to me.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/1196647-post17.html

+1 It hasn't happened to me directly, but I witnessed it happen just this past Sunday. Up until then I had "dismissed" these claims because I had never heard of the problem before. Sunday I personally witnessed it happen, finger was nowhere near the trigger, the rifle fired as the safety was moved from safe to fire. No modifications to the gun, completely factory, including the stock, and less than 100 rounds on the gun (my estimation knowing the shooter and how long he has owned it).

 

[Walter Zoomie]

...No modifications to the gun, completely factory, including the stock, and less than 100 rounds on the gun (my estimation knowing the shooter and how long he has owned it).

Sounds exactly like mine. I received it as a gift from my father-in-law, who received it new as a gift from his late brother.

My FIL put no more than 20 rounds through it, and I put probably six.

It malfunctioned as previously explained as I was getting ready to fire the first round and took the rifle off safe.

I was sitting at a bench with the weapon resting on a sandbag, pointing down-range, and my eye at the scope.

It put the fear of God into me for sure, but I fired off the rest of the ammo in the rifle with no problems, then cleaned it and put it away.

I haven't touched it since, and that was 4 years ago.

As it sits, I wouldn't bet my life on it for anything, especially if I was sniping the enemy during the upcoming apocalypse.