Removing "a" serial number ...

[Kagnew]

I have one of many CZ82s which CAI imported. On some of them (mine included), they "etched" a second serial number on the front grip strap (just below the trigger guard). The manufacturer's serial number (a different number) is still in place on the frame and the slide. Would it be legal (for cosmetic purposes) to remove the CAI serial number? (It's not etched very deeply, and could easily be buffed off.)

 

[shooter521]

Would it be legal (for cosmetic purposes) to remove the CAI serial number? (It's not etched very deeply, and could easily be buffed off.)

No. The "second" serial number was applied by CAI when the gun was imported, and is the serial number of record (i.e. that's how it was logged in/out of CAI's inventory, and the distributor's, and your dealer's). Thus, it needs to be kept intact.

USC TITLE 18 PART I CHAPTER 44 § 922 reads in part:

It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to transport, ship, or receive, in interstate or foreign commerce, any firearm which has had the importer’s or manufacturer’s serial number removed, obliterated, or altered or to possess or receive any firearm which has had the importer’s or manufacturer’s serial number removed, obliterated, or altered and has, at any time, been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce. (emphasis mine)

 

[warthog]

And this is why collector's HATE CAI for what they do to imports… especially the Bill Boards they use from time to time. They utterly destroy the collector value of the gun.

Serial numbers can be moved to a less conspicuous though and if done well they wind up looking pretty nice.

 

[Slawburger]

It takes all the fun out of speculating, arguing and opining when you jump straight to the law books.

We could have gotten a good 4 pages out of this thread.

 

[shooter521]

Serial numbers can be moved to a less conspicuous though

Please provide a link to supporting documentation; everything I have seen, including ATF letters, says they can't be.

 

[seedubs1]

Sounds like by that sited law, it's ok as long as you are "unknowing."

also so sounds like you can't intentionally remove, modify, etc... A serial number, but if it were to be unintentionally polished away through "excessive cleaning" or "wear and tear".....well, that's another story.

 

[Kagnew]

Well, anyway - thanks for the info. Sure wish those CAI jerk-offs hadn't done that.

 

[seedubs1]

Well, anyway - thanks for the info. Sure wish those CAI jerk-offs hadn't done that.

Yeah, youre pretty much stuck with it.

 

[warthog]

You have to be an FFL able to manufacture to move a serial number and right now I would need to search my book to do this for you (they still send them to me even though I haven't had an FFL for ten years now). I used to do it in my shop pretty regularly and I never had the BATFE I was wrong in doing it. I have several firearms with serial numbers than have been moved as well.

I request some time. I will also add that I haven't done it nor had it done for ten years. I stopped smithing when my neuropathy became too painful for me to do this sort of work any longer. So I will gladly admit that the BATFE may have changed to rules since the last time I did or had it done.

I will mark this thread and if I am wrong, admit my fault without hesitation. I am find with the backing of what I say here.

 

[BGDave]

Seem to remember an article in Small Arms Review about this very thing. Involved adapting a 9mm AR rifle to use Soumi 50 round coffin mags. ATF would not budge on moving serial. The fix was the guy got a manufacturer to make a lower with the serial in another place. Other than on the mag well. Can't even begin to tell you what year or issue.

 

[Kagnew]

I got my foot off the bag, here. I could have sworn that the factory serial number was stamped on the slide and the frame. It's not. It's stamped on the slide and the barrel. Apparently the ATF requires a serial number on the frame, so CAI had to etch a number in order to comply. (My bad.)

 

[warthog]

I am awaiting a response to my query. I have two firearms on which this was done however and has never been questioned by the BATFE in any of the many inspections they have done on my firearms or my past businesses. I will post when I do get something official to say though and have the thread bookmarked so I can find it easily when I have something either way.

 

[warthog]

Well I am back and admit this has changed. I will amend my advice to reflect this from here on. You may not move a serial number unless you are the firearm's ORIGINAL manufacturer at this point. My saying you can move a serial number with an 05 or 07 FFL is therefore only true if you are making a brand new firearm on a brand new frame/receiver from scratch.

Warty Out.

 

[Kagnew]

Thanks!