replacing the M4/M16 assault rifle with a new carbine

[singlesix]

40 rounds a minute, eh? Sounds like H&K need to up the cyclic rate a tad.

Why? Do you have experience firing a .50 Cal M2 Machine Gun? What rate would you recommend and why?

 

[blue2golf]

Troopers used to carry the M1 Carbine for good reason despite the lack of pure stopping power. Same with the M4. Ease of handling, light weight, plus a proven, reliable weapons system. (You could ask the multitude of dead gooks and rag heads what they think of the 5.56 round, but they won't answer...they're dead)

As for me, I won't be replacing my M-4 type AR carbines, no matter what the military decides. (Hell, I bought even bought an M9 last year. Love it, a great handgun.)

 

[phylodog]

Yeah, yeah, this same "issue" has been popping up every few years since 9/11 and they've always ended the same way; with the M16/M4 platform remaining right where it is. I'd certainly like to see our Soldiers, Marines, Airmen & Sailors equipped with the best possible platform but I've yet to see one produced which works better than what they have, all things considered.

 

[Hop]

Mk262 is a fantastic round. Why not give it a chance to prove itself. There are soldiers reporting one hit bad guy drops at 600 yards from an MK18.

 

[hog slayer]

Why? Do you have experience firing a .50 Cal M2 Machine Gun? What rate would you recommend and why?

It should have another zero on the end. It's gotta be a typo. That would less than one per second and ridiculously slow. It could even go to 800 rounds per minute. Why I say it's gotta be a typo.

 

[Trigger Time]

It's not going anywhere anytime soon.
also who the hell reads and puts any worth into what armytimes publishes. They are worthless

 

[singlesix]

It should have another zero on the end. It's gotta be a typo. That would less than one per second and ridiculously slow. It could even go to 800 rounds per minute. Why I say it's gotta be a typo.

Yeah I still remember shooting the Ma Deuce from my M60A1, yeah I'm that old.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Why? Do you have experience firing a .50 Cal M2 Machine Gun? What rate would you recommend and why?

I do, and it was quite a bit faster than bang-one-potato-bang-two-potato-bang-three-potato-bang, which is about what a 40 rounds a minute rate would be. The M2 is somewhere in the neighborhood of 500 rounds per minute, IIRC.

 

[oldpink]

I do, and it was quite a bit faster than bang-one-potato-bang-two-potato-bang-three-potato-bang, which is about what a 40 rounds a minute rate would be. The M2 is somewhere in the neighborhood of 500 rounds per minute, IIRC.

You recall correctly.
The quoted number they told us in US Naval Gunnery School was 550 rounds per minute.
Betcha miss getting to shoot them (not in combat, though!).
I know I do.

 

[singlesix]

The M4 will be replaced, LTCH is going away, take your pick.

 

[Hohn]

With heavy bullets from an 18" barrel, I don't feel that an AR lacks for two legged effectiveness at ranges I care about. But I'm not a Marine taking fire from 800m away in very hilly country.

 

[hog slayer]

With heavy bullets from an 18" barrel, I don't feel that an AR lacks for two legged effectiveness at ranges I care about. But I'm not a Marine taking fire from 800m away in very hilly country.

Mission dictates equipment. Very few hadji's create a need for 800 meter engagement.

 

[Spike Jones 5 2002]

I would rather be shooting at HADJI's from 800 meters when they can only shoot back at 400 meters.

 

[singlesix]

I would rather be shooting at HADJI's from 800 meters when they can only shoot back at 400 meters.

I would rather nobody was shooting at anybody.

 

[SMiller]

I would rather nobody was shooting at anybody.

Are you new here?

 

[avboiler11]

My infantry officer friend's weapon of choice:

 

[flatlander]

Well, a big part of the issue is the 5.56 relies on velocity, which relies on barrel length. When the M-16 was widely replaced with the M-4, it changed the equation. I understand the reasons for a shorter barrel and being more suited for urban combat, but the musket works better for longer range engagement and does more work when it gets there. Anyone who doubt the lethality of the 5.56 and well designed bullets when it hits in it's intended velocity range has never seen the autopsy results. It's like a big melon baller went at the decedent's innards. Drop it below the point it tumbles and the stretch cavity is permanent, and it's just a heavy .22.

The other part of the issue is bullet construction. You can have excellent barrier penetration or you can have excellent bullet upset (which is what makes it more damaging than a .22). I'm unaware of a bullet that offers both. Maybe it's out there and I'm just unaware of it, but I do try to stay on top of 5.56 offerings.

Now, if a new cartridge will solve that issue, particularly if we continue to abide by "ball ammo only need apply" for bullet construction is beyond my pay grade.

I am so tired of people that haven't done anything or been anywhere talk crap about something they only know from what they've read on the interweb! The weapon system has evolved from the bad ol days of Vietnam.
I've carried it from 1976-2011 in pretty much all it's configurations during that time. I was a Grunt so I carried it a lot and shot it some. I have seen first hand what the round will do to a body from the jungles in central america to the deserts of the middle east. The round works when it's used in it's proper role.
All the peolpe who want the longer range have never had to carry it further than the car let alone 20+ miles with the other 50-100lbs of gear you need.
BBI gets it. You can't have one weapon that will do everything everywhere you may need it. You also can't afford to have 100's of thousands of each type of weapon ready to hand out for each different situation. How many people are capable of hitting what they are aiming at 600-800 meters anyway? You can spray and pray with anything. The DMR are for the guys that can hit at distances not everybody who THINKS they can.
Rant off

Bob

 

[singlesix]

My infantry officer friend's weapon of choice:

You only out run Artillery Cover ONCE!

 

[Spike Jones 5 2002]

I would rather nobody was shooting at anybody.

Tell that to every trooper on the front line.
Also tell it to every police officer answering a call.
If that was only true. There would be no need for our Second Amendment.

 

[singlesix]

Tell that to every trooper on the front line.
Also tell it to every police officer answering a call.
If that was only true. There would be no need for our Second Amendment.

whooo ... maybe I should read this with Battle Hymn Of The Republic playing softly in the background?