Research Paper - Carry On Campus

[joekoug]

Howdy Folks

I'm writing my final research/argumentative paper for a college English comp class on concealed carry on college campuses. This is in response to my English professor's negative reaction to the empty holster protest a few weeks ago.

I found a Fox News clip on youtube of Judge Andrew Napolitano arguing for the right for students and staff with permits to be allowed to carry on campus. One of his arguments was that 6 Virginia Tech students had ccw permits, and had their sidearms either locked up in their vehicles or at their home during the incident. He said that maybe lives could have been saved had some of these students been armed during the attack.

For the life of me I can't find anything anywhere with this information in print. My prof is a stickler for references and as much as I want to include this in my paper, I can't without some information printed somewhere. Has anyone run across any information like this anywhere?

Much thanks for any input. I'll post a copy of my paper on here once it's completed. Maybe someone in the future could have some use for the information I put together.

Joe

 

[trnsplntfrmohio]

Come on bro first hit on google, it's got a transcript

http://google.com/?q=Napolitano+virginia+tech

 

[joekoug]

I know what HE said. I'm trying to find a source for his statement that 6 students could have been armed inside the school during the massacre because they had ccw permits. BTW the short transcript on that first website isn't a transcript of the interview I was paraphrasing him from.

I can quote anyone who publicly states that they were abducted and analy probed by aliens. That doesn't mean that that statement from that person is a good source to quote for a college research paper. Now if there was a written report from say the FBI that someone had infact been abducted by aliens I might quote that person and reference the printed report to back up the statement.

 

[JBusch8899]

I know what HE said. I'm trying to find a source for his statement that 6 students could have been armed inside the school during the massacre because they had ccw permits. BTW the short transcript on that first website isn't a transcript of the interview I was paraphrasing him from.

I can quote anyone who publicly states that they were abducted and analy probed by aliens. That doesn't mean that that statement from that person is a good source to quote for a college research paper. Now if there was a written report from say the FBI that someone had infact been abducted by aliens I might quote that person and reference the printed report to back up the statement.

A reputable source acceptable to the faculty is sometimes enough.

However, in the absence of such acceptance, as well as a lack of information from readily available information from the multitude of media outlets; I would first suggest contacting FNC in NYC, to directly inquire of Napolitano's source, followed possibly with a FOIA request of the investigation at VT, grand jury fact findings, and legislative intent of subsequent VA law.

 

[mettle]

Last months NRA 'American Rifleman' had a good article on Concealed Carry and it's success. While it is not explicitly campus carry theme;however, it DOES offer good numbers and a good reputable source for a solid point that ccw carries with it real results.

 

[Bill of Rights]

If I wanted to know from where Judge Napolitano got his information, especially for academic citation, I would contact Judge Napolitano himself. Granted, you'll get a staffer, but that's far closer (and better, IMHO) than contacting the station on which he was broadcast to contact his staff to contact him and pass it back from him to his staff to the station to you.

I'd be surprised if you didn't actually get an answer from him, too... From FNC or whoever... not so much.

Blessings,
Bill

I would check and see if VA has open records (such as HB 1068 will close for IN) or if they did at the time of the shooting, then check the names of the victims against that list.

 

[dross]

If I wanted to know from where Judge Napolitano got his information, especially for academic citation, I would contact Judge Napolitano himself. Granted, you'll get a staffer, but that's far closer (and better, IMHO) than contacting the station on which he was broadcast to contact his staff to contact him and pass it back from him to his staff to the station to you.

I'd be surprised if you didn't actually get an answer from him, too... From FNC or whoever... not so much.

Blessings,
Bill

I would check and see if VA has open records (such as HB 1068 will close for IN) or if they did at the time of the shooting, then check the names of the victims against that list.

Over the years I've written to many columnists and writers. Only one has failed to write back, oddly the least famous of any of them.

I once sent Thomas Sowell a copy of an argument I was having with a leftie friend via email. Sowell replied with an email, asked for my address, and then sent a copy of the galleys of a book he had coming out in a few months, as well as a nice letter on his office stationary.

I would advise writing the Judge as well. I'd be surprised if it didn't pay off.

 

[joekoug]

Thanks for the input folks! I actually sent the judge an email yesterday afternoon after banging my head against my laptop for a few hours trying to find his source. Hopefully he will send something back.

Everyone here is such a big help, I love this forum, so glad I found it. There is such a plethora of information here amongst all of us.

Joe

 

[cosermann]

How about the fact that carry on college campuses USED TO BE legal/accepted/allowed and it wasn't an issue.

When my dad was a boy, they'd bring their shotguns to school and stand them in the corner so they could hunt (rabbits, phesants, etc.) on their way to/from school. No problems.

Carry by staff on IUBs campus was permitted up to the mid 90's. Lots of problems? No.

How about the 2002 incident at the Appalacian School of Law in Virginia?

Lott's book, More Guns, Less Crime is also a good one from which to draw.

There's no reason we would expect natural law to work any differently on a college campus than it does anywhere else in the world.

 

[joekoug]

Thanks for the tip on Lott's book! I just picked it up from the library, lots of good information. Plus 1 for you!!!

 

[UIndyKenneth]

If you go to this link, you can find some common arguments with answers.

Students for Concealed Carry on Campus - ConcealedCampus.com

Argument:A person with a gun could snap and go on a killing spree

Answer: Contrary to popular myth, most psychiatric professionals agree that the notion of a previously sane, well-adjusted person simply ‘snapping’ and becoming violent is not supported by case evidence. A Secret Service study* into school shootings concluded that school shooters do not simply snap and that a person’s downward spiral toward violence is typically accompanied by numerous warning signs. *“Safe School Initiative: An Interim Report on the Prevention of Targeted Violence in Schools,” U.S. Secret Service National Threat Assessment Center in collaboration with the U.S. Department of Education with support from the National Institute of Justice, Co-Directors Bryan Vossekuil, Marissa Reddy PhD, Robert Fein PhD, October 2000



Argument: Guns on camups would lead to more violent crime.




Answer: Since the fall semester of 2006, state law has allowed licensed individuals to carry concealed handguns on the campuses of the nine degree-offering public colleges (20 campuses) and one public technical college (10 campuses) in Utah. Concealed carry has been allowed at Colorado State University (Fort Collins, CO) since 2003 and at Blue Ridge Community College (Weyers Cave, VA) since 1995. After allowing concealed carry on campus for a combined total of one hundred semesters, none of these twelve schools has seen a single resulting incident of gun violence (including threats and suicides), a single gun accident, or a single gun theft. Likewise, none of the forty ‘right-to-carry’ states has seen a resulting increase in gun violence since legalizing concealed carry, despite the fact that licensed citizens in those states regularly carry concealed handguns in places like office buildings, movie theaters, grocery stores, shopping malls, restaurants, churches, banks, etc. Numerous studies*, including studies by University of Maryland senior research scientist John Lott, University of Georgia professor David Mustard, engineering statistician William Sturdevant, and various state agencies, show that concealed handgun license holders are five times less likely than non-license holders to commit violent crimes.

"Crime, Deterrence, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns,” John Lott and David Mustard, Journal of Legal Studies (v.26, no.1, pages 1-68, January 1997);

“An Analysis of the Arrest Rate of Texas Concealed Handgun License Holders as Compared to the Arrest Rate of the Entire Texas Population,” William E. Sturdevant, September 1, 2000; Florida Department of Justice statistics, 1998; Florida Department of State,

“Concealed Weapons/Firearms License Statistical Report,” 1998; Texas Department of Public Safety and the U.S. Census Bureau, reported in San Antonio Express-News, September 2000; Texas Department of Corrections data, 1996-2000, compiled by the Texas State Rifle Association

 

[Airborne33]

Really, I don't see the reasoning behind the ban on carry or concealed at college. Having a policy against concealed weapons isn't going to stop people from bringing weapons on campus to commit crimes. All the evidence you need can be found in any past school shooting.

Having a policy against weapons will force all law abiding citizens to leave their handguns elsewhere, unable to protect their own life, or the life of others.

Now if across the board they could simply allow concealed carry on campus with permit, I can't see it negatively affecting anyone. Some people may have a personal problem with this, but those people need to understand that for those of us who carry, it's a part of our lifestyle and by carrying I am in no way breaking a law, or infringing on any of their rights. To be able to legally carry, we have to get a background check and in some states take a safety course.

In fact I would argue that allowing properly licenced individuals on campus, who know how to correctly defend themselves, who are law abiding citizens, would actually make the overall enviroment safer. Criminals who want to terrorize large masses of people simply wouldn't get as far before they could be stopped. Yes the police have the job to serve and protect, but they are at best a few precious minutes away. I may not have the job to defend myself or others, but I do believe I have the right to pursue life, liberty and happiness. I would consider under the pursuit of life, it's not a difficult argument to say I should be allowed to defend my own.

 

[Dashman010]

Read the following article. Best information you are going to find on the topic by an expert in the field: David Kopel. Article is from the Connecticut law review, and was cited in the recent Colorado Court of Appeals decision regarding carry on campus.

SSRN-Pretend 'Gun-Free' School Zones: A Deadly Legal Fiction by David Kopel

 

[Bill of Rights]

Joekoug, for lots of good info, check out Gun Facts - Gun Control | Facts | Debunk | Myths. Exhaustively researched and intellectually honest info, it should help you with your paper and with this issue when dealing with antis.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[peloe16]

as a college student, I really like the idea of being able to carry on campus. last year i signed a petition at the 1500 to allow it, but that probably got nowhere. I was also thinking of doing my paper on this, but we had a different topic. while you are doing research, inform classmates and professors that this should be our right.!!!!!!

 

[Libertarian01]

Joekoug,

On the off chance that either:

A) Judge Napolitano was full of , or;
B) You never hear back from him.

You can do an information request yourself w/ the Virginia State Police.

Here are the victims:

Virginia Tech Shooting Victims - washingtonpost.com

Here is the Virginia State Police:

Virginia State Police

It never hurts to get a good primary source yourself. When asking the VSP about what you need make certain to sound more important than you are. You aren't just doing a "college paper" (can blow you off easy)you are "performing an in depth study for the University of X."(can look good in college study) I am not advocating lying, just adding a little sparkle to the request.

Here is a link w/ some info that may lead to further ideas:

Gun Control Claims More Victims

Out of curiosity which college are you attending? I am taking classes at Ivy Tech that will transfer to IPFW.

Regards,

Doug

 

[POC]

Really, I don't see the reasoning behind the ban on carry or concealed at college. Having a policy against concealed weapons isn't going to stop people from bringing weapons on campus to commit crimes. All the evidence you need can be found in any past school shooting.

Having a policy against weapons will force all law abiding citizens to leave their handguns elsewhere, unable to protect their own life, or the life of others.

Now if across the board they could simply allow concealed carry on campus with permit, I can't see it negatively affecting anyone. Some people may have a personal problem with this, but those people need to understand that for those of us who carry, it's a part of our lifestyle and by carrying I am in no way breaking a law, or infringing on any of their rights. To be able to legally carry, we have to get a background check and in some states take a safety course.

In fact I would argue that allowing properly licenced individuals on campus, who know how to correctly defend themselves, who are law abiding citizens, would actually make the overall enviroment safer. Criminals who want to terrorize large masses of people simply wouldn't get as far before they could be stopped. Yes the police have the job to serve and protect, but they are at best a few precious minutes away. I may not have the job to defend myself or others, but I do believe I have the right to pursue life, liberty and happiness. I would consider under the pursuit of life, it's not a difficult argument to say I should be allowed to defend my own.

Great post!
I was in college when the VT shootings happened. I really, really wanted to start carrying a gun to school with me. But is it worth getting kicked out of school and maybe arrested over? I didn't think so, so I didn't carry.

Good luck with your paper, keep us updated.

 

[ddenny5]

I did a gun rights paper in college two years ago. I would be careful about the tone of the paper. Many profs will dock you a letter grade because they disagree with you.

 

[fwacfred]

Try Ebsco Host on your college's virtual library. I just did an argumentative paper on the need for less gun control. Got an A. I also used John Lott's book as one of my works cited. My instructor was about as pro 2A as you can get.

 

[ak keep the second]

What university are you at?