Rifle Ammunition -- Why Use Hollowpoints?

[Wabatuckian]

Hello,

Maybe this is a naive question, but I'm really not too familiar with rifle terminal ballistics.

As I understand it, a 55grn .223" bullet driven to 3000fps or so will drop a man just fine.

So why the soft points and hollow points? (When I say "hollow points", I do not mean match ammunition).

Let's say I start reloading .30-06 or 7.62x54r. I would think I could push a 125grn bullet pretty fast, maybe Mach 3.

Wouldn't this really just zap the lights out of whatever target it hit? I would think the bullet would come apart.

What am I missing here?

Thanks,

Josh

 

[dross]

Hello,

Maybe this is a naive question, but I'm really not too familiar with rifle terminal ballistics.

As I understand it, a 55grn .223" bullet driven to 3000fps or so will drop a man just fine.

So why the soft points and hollow points? (When I say "hollow points", I do not mean match ammunition).

Let's say I start reloading .30-06 or 7.62x54r. I would think I could push a 125grn bullet pretty fast, maybe Mach 3.

Wouldn't this really just zap the lights out of whatever target it hit? I would think the bullet would come apart.

What am I missing here?

Thanks,

Josh

Not all bullets will come apart. If they don't come apart, they'll just punch a hole. Expanding bullets don't come apart, they just get bigger on impact.

Certain types of 5.56 FMJ don't come apart no matter how fast they're going.

 

[6birds]

As I understand it, a 55grn .223" bullet driven to 3000fps or so will drop a man just fine. Too many vaiables to just say any hit will "drop a man".

So why the soft points and hollow points? (When I say "hollow points", I do not mean match ammunition). Soft and hollow react differently when hitting bone and soft tissue than a solid.

Let's say I start reloading .30-06 or 7.62x54r. I would think I could push a 125grn bullet pretty fast, maybe Mach 3. You can get a factory 180 gr load that will be going 3200fps, that's not really "pushing" a bullet very fast.

Wouldn't this really just zap the lights out of whatever target it hit? Where did you hit him, at what yardage, how pissed off is he?
I would think the bullet would come apart. No

What am I missing here? What are you trying to accomplish?

 

[Titanium_Frost]

I would say that this (bullet ballistics) is a lot like Hotrodding cars, people want to slap a turbo or NO2 on it and call it done, or expect every new muffler to add 30hp. Its all about the system. FMJ, Hollow points, and Soft points all have their place but its how you use them that determines which is best. Its not just about speed, or even diameter that makes for an effective round.

The military HAVE to use non-expanding ammo per Hague laws, so they designed stuff that will tumble or separate to cause the extra damage. Civilians are not regulated the same and we can use expanding ammo. LOTS of things CAN kill a man, that does not mean that it is useful for the purpose of self defense.

 

[norman428]

Hollow points are not just thinking about your target, but what's BEHIND your target. Similar to handguns, when they hit something, they expand, and destroy what they hit. Non hollow point can continue through, depending on what they hit, to another target, causing damage you did not intend to cause.
So they stop on impact of target, instead of continuing to the next target, which in a defensive situation, could just be a innocent bystander.
That's how I understand it anyway. I see no use for rifle hollow points, but for personal defence in my handgun, yes.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

Same reason you'd use HP ammunition in a handgun...

Hoping for expansion + 100% "energy dump" in a target so that the bullet doesn't keep on trucking.

-J-

 

[Mr. Habib]

Hello,

Maybe this is a naive question, but I'm really not too familiar with rifle terminal ballistics.

As I understand it, a 55grn .223" bullet driven to 3000fps or so will drop a man just fine.

So why the soft points and hollow points? (When I say "hollow points", I do not mean match ammunition).

Let's say I start reloading .30-06 or 7.62x54r. I would think I could push a 125grn bullet pretty fast, maybe Mach 3.

Wouldn't this really just zap the lights out of whatever target it hit? I would think the bullet would come apart.

What am I missing here?

Thanks,

Josh

Yes, it may come apart, but will it penetrate deeply enough to reach vital organs first? The hollow point is designed to allowed controlled expansion and for the bullet to remain intact, not for it to just come apart. Your example of a 55grn. FMJ bullet retains most of it's weight and actually mimics a hollow point's wounding by typically yawing 90 to 180 degrees inside the target and increasing the width of the wound channel.

 

[ViperJock]

Sometimes the hollow points are more accurate too. For example in High Power Rifle competition, most people shoot hollow points for accuracy reasons. Don't ask me why, I'm not a ballistics expert or physics major. Check out "match" ammo though and you will see a lot of it in hollow point.

 

[Mr. Habib]

Sometimes the hollow points are more accurate too. For example in High Power Rifle competition, most people shoot hollow points for accuracy reasons. Don't ask me why, I'm not a ballistics expert or physics major. Check out "match" ammo though and you will see a lot of it in hollow point.

Those "hollow points" are actually considered open tip. They are essentially FMJ bullets with the jacket on backwards. Typical FMJ bullets have an exposed base which can cause accuracy problems. The open tip is more of a manufacturing artifact then anything else.

 

[lovemachine]

So, hollow points would be best for self defense then, right?
If my AR15 was my house rifle for self defense, I would want a mag full of hollow points. That way there's less chance of them going thru the BG and hitting a neighbor.

Is that right?

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

So, hollow points would be best for self defense then, right?
If my AR15 was my house rifle for self defense, I would want a mag full of hollow points. That way there's less chance of them going thru the BG and hitting a neighbor.

Is that right?

Pretty much.

.223 / 5.56 firearms make for decent HD weapons; especially SBR's / pistols (both to keep velocities lower than in 16-20" bbls and for maneuverability)

Don't get me wrong, the projectile will still punch through SEVERAL layers of sheet rock... Just not as much as heavier projectiles.

EVERY BULLET that leaves your weapon has a lawyer attached to it. This is true whether or not you're target shooting in BFE or you're forced to utilize a firearm to defend yourself.

9mm, .40, and .45 go through plenty of walls, too...

-J-

 

[redneckmedic]

My understanding is that isn't not about target damage, with those velocities the cavitation wave is HUGE, not like handguns where every mm matters.

As it was stated above, its more about the ballistics. The visual aid that helps me is this, "think of it like the dimples on a golf ball".

 

[DRob]

No FMJ

I use HPs, SPs, & BTs to reduce the chance of ricochets. If I miss a prairie dog and my bullet ricochets and kills a cow, I buy the cow. I'm not much into buying cows. None of my rifles are suitable for HD so that's not an issue. Got a shotgun for social work!

 

[gunman41mag]

Hello,

Maybe this is a naive question, but I'm really not too familiar with rifle terminal ballistics.

As I understand it, a 55grn .223" bullet driven to 3000fps or so will drop a man just fine.

So why the soft points and hollow points? (When I say "hollow points", I do not mean match ammunition).

Let's say I start reloading .30-06 or 7.62x54r. I would think I could push a 125grn bullet pretty fast, maybe Mach 3.

Wouldn't this really just zap the lights out of whatever target it hit? I would think the bullet would come apart.

What am I missing here?

Thanks,

Josh

Heavier bullets will PENETRATE deeper, hollow-points mushroom & bullets tend not to penetrate as much

 

[rhino]

Some hollow point rifle bullets have hollow points for accuracy reasons, are not intended to expand, and do not expand (although some fragment). These are usually called "open tip match." A good example are the 68, 69, 75, and 77gr OTM loads that Black Hills makes in .223 and 5.56x45mm.

 

[sianbrimons]

So, hollow points would be best for self defense then, right?
If my AR15 was my house rifle for self defense, I would want a mag full of hollow points. That way there's less chance of them going thru the BG and hitting a neighbor.

Is that right?

yep, in my DPMS i plink with fmj, but when it's next to my bed it's got a p-mag full of hornady hollow points, i would hate for my room mate to be coming down from upstairs and a bullet go through mr. bad man and into someone that didn't try to break into my home, also when those points peel open like a lemon... mr. bad man will be experiencing some regret...

 

[U.S. Patriot]

Personaly

AK: HP's or SP's
Mosin: FMJ's or SP's
M4: FMJ's

 

[U.S. Patriot]

yep, in my DPMS i plink with fmj, but when it's next to my bed it's got a p-mag full of hornady hollow points, i would hate for my room mate to be coming down from upstairs and a bullet go through mr. bad man and into someone that didn't try to break into my home, also when those points peel open like a lemon... mr. bad man will be experiencing some regret...

Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm in no way a ballistics expert. However, if you fire on someone in close proximity. A bullet traveling at 3,000 + FPS, hollow point or not, is still going to over penetrate.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm in no way a ballistics expert. However, if you fire on someone in close proximity. A bullet traveling at 3,000 + FPS, hollow point or not, is still going to over penetrate.

Pretty much.

 

[ViperJock]

Those "hollow points" are actually considered open tip. They are essentially FMJ bullets with the jacket on backwards. Typical FMJ bullets have an exposed base which can cause accuracy problems. The open tip is more of a manufacturing artifact then anything else.

Wow, that is interesting. I never really understood why this would be the case, but everyone assured me that it was. Nice to know why! Thanks!