Rifle for Bug Out

[jd4320t]

bugout probably means the world as you know it is over. you are not going to be able to meticulously clean your ar15 which would be required for it to work. the ak47, m14 or 308 type rifle would be without a doubt the weapon you would need. maybe not what you would want but what you would need.

Why would it be any different than our military using it for the last 40+ years?

 

[Joe Williams]

Our shotgun is a Mossberg Bantam Youth 20ga, a gun that all three of us can easily handle. Our rifle is an SKS, another gun all of us can easily handle, though the stock that is currently on it makes it a bit heavy for Sean.

We've also each got .22s that would make the trip with us if we had to leave, either in our vehicle, or on our cart if we were on foot. More ammo for the .22s by far, but the shotgun and rifle are our "fighting" guns, though I intend to be as sneaky as we can and avoid fights at all costs if possible if we are forced to bug out.

 

[GIJEW]

I noticed that three of the responders to the OP mentioned having something in 22 cal. I'm new to guns & am wondering what the reasoning is for having a .22 in addition to the AR's, shotguns, .45's, 9mm's, etc.

I own one gun (so far), a 9mm S&W Sigma and am struggling with what to buy next. I want something that is both fun to shoot as well as useful in a pinch. My list of "maybe's" includes a Marlin 60 or 795 or a 10-22, a short barreled 12 ga, something in .223/5.62, a smaller carry pistol and a revolver of some sort, in no particular order. The struggle comes in deciding which would be the most logical next gun to buy. Until I win the lottery, funds are an issue, so I need to buy wisely.

Any suggestions or useful input would be appreciated.

You'll probably need to practice sooner than a "bug-out" situation will arise, and if not, you've got you're 9mm.
If the SHTF, youll probably be better off digging in at home--and being able to take head shots behind cover/concealment at 50-100yds with a .22 would discourage any herd of "zombies".
I LOVE my AR, but I bought a .22 first.

 

[Joe Williams]

I noticed that three of the responders to the OP mentioned having something in 22 cal. I'm new to guns & am wondering what the reasoning is for having a .22 in addition to the AR's, shotguns, .45's, 9mm's, etc.

I own one gun (so far), a 9mm S&W Sigma and am struggling with what to buy next. I want something that is both fun to shoot as well as useful in a pinch. My list of "maybe's" includes a Marlin 60 or 795 or a 10-22, a short barreled 12 ga, something in .223/5.62, a smaller carry pistol and a revolver of some sort, in no particular order. The struggle comes in deciding which would be the most logical next gun to buy. Until I win the lottery, funds are an issue, so I need to buy wisely.

Any suggestions or useful input would be appreciated.

.22s are quiet which makes it harder to locate you if you are forced to fire a shot, they CAN be used for defensive purposes if forced to it though it's not ideal, they can take any small or medium game you need to feed your family. The ammo is very light, and takes up very little space. The three of us can carry three thousand rounds total on our backs with little effort, that's only two bricks each. How much space and weight is 5.56, 7.62x39, or 12ga gonna cost you? That three thousand rounds only costs about $100, which means you can stockpile enough ammo to last a very long time for very little cash outlay.

If I were limited to one gun, it would be a .22.

 

[Hoosierdood]

Wow! Page 5 and I can't believe nobody has suggested the Draco yet. The DRACO is an Ak-47 pistol. Lightweight, easily carried in a backpack/trunk, and can carry 30-40 rounds. Has the reliability of an AK, but lacks in range. But if you are thinking of a Bug-out gun, it is the perfect compromise. By the way, Midwest Gun Exchange in South Bend has them for $339 while they last. If you come over this way, pm me and I will go with you.

 

[JTinIN]

Interesting thread. While agree having several long guns is a good idea if one is at home, the cabin, camp or the truck ... if you are on foot (either permanent or just going from point a to b for the hour) then what is the one long gun one carries with them all he time?

Like the shotgun but ammo is a little heavy, slow to reload (if the world has gotten this bad, could always have issues with a "groups") and a shot gun is marginal past 133 yards ;-). A fairly light caliber center fire rifle can do pretty well on some of the rapid fire pistol / three gun course, shooting multiple / multiple targets. At close range and/or inside the standard MBR (aka HK91 / M1A / FAL ) starts to move a little slow (at least for me) and more important is a little heavy to carry easily at the ready while doing something else. Back to the "large long side arm" type concept, which is about the same as what and why the M1 carbine was issued in WWII and Korea for - granted with mixed results. Which keeps me coming back to an AK, AR15 (son's light weight 16" barrel is not bad) or even a MP5 size (do have to give up the range past 150 yards and a whole lot of issues with NFA if the world is not really that bad out their).

Follow Up: Thinking as a system, if one has a standard issues side arm (i.e. Glock, M92, 1911 or HK USP Tactical ;-) and a pocket gun (I always have a light weight J frame and 10 round ... period), then one more long gun is probably all you are going to have in your hands when moving around (figure is the equal of the bear rifle when you go to the out house in the Alaska's bear country). A 22LR would be nice and so would a shotgun ... but I can not carry everything all the time.

One could make a nice case for a light weight 308, such as a friends FAL carbine, however, the higher recoil still tends to slow the follow up shots when shoot a high speed pistol type course .. at least for me. If a little more common then something along the lines of a 6.8mm or 6.5mm in an AR would be interesting - but not common enough for this type application. I would tend to limit myself to .223, .308, plus 762x39, 30/30 and 30-06 for rifles, 9mm, 40SW (?), 45ACP, 38 Spec/357Mag for handguns and maybe 44Mag. 12ga and maybe 20ga for shotguns. Plus the 22LR of course. Anything else then figure you have only the ammo you have ... except maybe 32ACP, 410 and 50BMG

 

[Devin22]

If i had to foot it, only carry what i can i would take a sub2k and glock 19, run the same mags, same caliber, the sub2k will reach out to 150, both shoot good and easy maint. ..... I see the .22 point, and i have a 10/22 but even with ok ammo and good mags they still jam..... obviously if i had transportation i would take more or different set up but for weight, simplicity, and size i would stick with the sub2k and 19.

 

[malern28us]

The more I think about it, the harder it is to choose!
I would heavily lean towards my Ruger PC4 carbine and Ruger P944 pistol. They take the same magazines and the carbine is as accurate as I would need to 100 yards. The fact that I have 15 magazine loaded (10 of the ten round and 5 twenty round magazines). My wife likes to shoot both and is comfortable with both.
I also have a AR in 7.62 x 39 with enough ammo and magazines.

 

[40calPUNISHER]

The more I think about it, the harder it is to choose!
I would heavily lean towards my Ruger PC4 carbine and Ruger P944 pistol. They take the same magazines and the carbine is as accurate as I would need to 100 yards. The fact that I have 15 magazine loaded (10 of the ten round and 5 twenty round magazines). My wife likes to shoot both and is comfortable with both.
I also have a AR in 7.62 x 39 with enough ammo and magazines.

No one has enough ammo and mags, ever.

 

[Regionnus Rattis]

Bugging out alone would be my 10/22 and the thousands of rounds I could carry with me. Home defense is 12 GA pump

 

[grimor]

I would also put a sub-2000 in the BoB, get the model that shares mags with your pistol

 

[revsaxon]

.22lr Ar-15 SBR with the 5.56 SBR upper in a backpack. Can easily fit into a backpack, dead on accurate, and has been mentioned before .22 ammo is light. Save teh 5.56 stuff for when teh situation is really dire and a .22 wont cut it. Going with SBR uppers because size is an issue. While I can fit a 11.5" in my backpack, the 16" wont fit and zip up.

 

[malern28us]

No one has enough ammo and mags, ever.

I guess it depends on how you have yourself stockpiled, where your bug out location is and your abillity to reload what you have. Sounds like you have work to do?

 

[alan robert]

Bugging out, evacuating, retreating, evasion, foraging, and strictly defensive.

A proven well rounded out firearm with a common ammunition. In America, there are several good "reliable" choices.

Soldiers are issued weapons; ideally a long arm, side arm, ammunition for both, and a knife/multi-tool. I say try to emulate that successful combination.

Balance out your load soldier style for where you live and where you are going. Weapon, water, food, clothing, med kit.

What is your mode of movement. Motorized vehicle, bicycle, foot, etc.

Who is with you? What are your and their current physical abilities and capabilities? Can everyone operate, carry, clean, or maintain your firearm choice, including yourself?

These parameters should and can definitely dictate a rifle choice.

Lot of good choices listed so far, with sound idealology.

Bugging out is not new to Africa, Asia, Europe, South America, the Middle East, and now America (Katrina for one). Lots of good examples to learn by in the last 35 years.

Yeah, sorry back to the original question.

I pick the AK style rifle with a folding stock/sling in any caliber, preferably 7.62x39 with soft point/hollow point/ball ammo in that order (or what ever I can find). You can find modern ammo/bullet combinations and magazines, just about anywhere in the States now.

A lot of people have been bugging out all over the world with the AK with success for years. The AK is still affordable to the average American citizen. Keep it simple-K.I.S.S.

Good luck with your choice.

 

[MilitaryArms]

I guess you must ask yourself, "why am I bugging out"?

Keep in mind, during civil unrest the last thing you want to be doing is moving around in the open nomadically, by yourself or even with your family... assuming you're goal is to stay alive.

First, there is safety in numbers. Staying with a group increases your chances of survival. Being a loner, moving around between other groups looking to scavenge their resources will get you killed. The ideal thing to do is to stockpile necessities at home, or in a safe place (cabin, etc.). Thinking you're going to loot stores, take food from others, live off the land when millions of others are doing the same will only add to the chaos and increase your chances of being killed.

Second, having a base of operations is critical to long term survival in any situation where you face multiple hostiles. This is true both in the military and civilian world during a time of unrest. Having ample stocks of food, water, ammo, clothing, firewood, gas, etc. is far better than having nothing and thinking you're going to roam around taking what you need by force or by luck.

I keep a "bug out bag" in name only. My bag is designed to be a small and portable device that I can use to quickly move with what I need to protect myself. That includes going outside to respond to a threat at my home, and needing to travel somewhere else in town for whatever reason (with the intention of returning to my base of operations). For that reason a simple over the shoulder bag that contains rifle mags, handgun mags, spare ammo, flashlight, knife, first aid kit, Leatherman tool, etc. is all I need. It also serves as a dump pouch to reclaim spent magazines vs. throwing them to the ground like in the movies.

If I'm downstairs, I can quickly grab my trash and move upstairs. If I want to put my gear down, I don't have to unstrap a bunch of tacticool gear that wastes time. The same goes for being able to move on short notice... nothing to strap on, just throw the strap over my shoulder, pick up my rifle and go.

The down side to having a "common" caliber like 5.56mm is that everyone will be looking for it. You're not going to stumble upon a case of .223 laying in the street. People will snatch that stuff up, it will be come quite valuable. So choosing your caliber based upon the assumption spare ammo will be laying haplessly about is a bit misguided. Your best bet is to stock ammo now, this makes scavenging ammo unnecessary.

Others have said "the military uses the M16 so you should use an AR15 because of parts commonality". Really. You think there will be droves of dead soldiers clutching their rifles strewn down every city street? Perhaps in the movies... I doubt that will be the case during civil unrest. How many homeless M16's do you think the citizens of LA or NOLA found laying about? Probably zero. Also, if you do luck into a misplaced M16 lying on the street, do you really think you're going to part it out or just pick it up and use it?

 

[MilitaryArms]

No one has enough ammo and mags, ever.

You can only carry so much.

At any given time I have 5,000 rounds of ammo stored. I figure that will last me years. Most civil unrest will resolve itself long before 2-3 years pass. This isn't the dark ages.

Why do I think 5k in ammo is enough? Because I can only move about with a couple hundred rounds on me. I don't plan on getting into protracted gun fights, your chances of surviving them aren't very high. Your best bet is to lay low, draw little attention to yourself and only fire your weapon when necessary. If you have hundreds of hostiles coming at your house, the odds are decidedly against your survival. So, avoiding conflict and having ample food stores will reduce the likelihood you'll need to expend ammo. That means a few thousand rounds will go a long-long way. Having more is certainly better, if nothing else you might be able to barter with it as I'm sure it will be quite valuable in a situation where civil unrest lasts for more than a few weeks.

 

[LuckyGunner]

AR

AR makes a great bug out rifle. I would suggest a M4 style for the weight savings.

I prefer a shotgun for SD/HD but as some others have pointed out, 12ga ammo is extremely heavy. You can get away with carrying around 300 rounds without much of an issue. While in normal situations I wouldn't use a .223 for most game size animals but in a TEOTWAWKI situation survival trumps all.

I don't have enough experience with them to give a full review, but for a bug out rifle the Kel-Tecs are intriguing.
__________________
.38 spl ammo

 

[ThrottleJockey]

As others have said, it really depends on the type and longevity of the BO. I like my CX4 and my 90-two both in .40 and use the same mags, add the ALWAYS present BUG sp101 .357 and possibly a 12g,AK,or .22 strapped to the back of my pack......If wife is there too, the possibilities are endless but I try to keep commonality of ammo as a deciding factor so both of our handguns would be .40 and .357 as a bug.

 

[Shootin'IN]

I've been a long time AR/M16 shooter. Right now if the SHTF I would grab my M16.

I'm evaluating the AK-74 right now because stockpiling ammo for it is super easy given it's half the price of .223. Even 7.62x39 is expensive by comparison. I can get 1080 rounds of 5.45x39 for $119.

The Saiga/Arsenal AK-74s are very well made, which is the rifle I picked up. There are a lot of options for AKs right now but many aren't all that well made and I don't care to test them out, I want a quality rifle. So Arsenal was the logical choice.

I've yet to see a 1 MOA AR-15 in a standard military configuration fired from the shoulder or expedient rest (battlefield type shooting) and using cheap milsurp ammo which most people stock-up on these days. 2-3" at 100 yards is good combat accuracy and is typical performance for anyone shooting under such conditions (not from a bench rest). AKs also meet this requirement. I can hit a man sized target at 300m with either rifle, and that's all that's necessary. I think the accuracy of the AK is grossly underestimated by many folks.

I'm still getting my AK up to speed with optics, mags, and practice. We will see if I transition to the platform or not. Having shot the AR since the mid-1980s and having served in the Corps with the M16A2 it's just all too familiar to me and hard to give up.

I agree with full-auto the AK74 would make good Bug-Out rifle, easy to operate, no cleaning needed, and with cheap light weight easy to carry ammo.
It tops my list, and with the tests I have done I have found that the mil-surp ammo on the market comes in two styles, the 5.45x39 in steel core & the 7N6 that is like hollow core.
The steel core has very good penetration on steel, and the 7N6 deflects on contact.
I shot the steel core at .5" steel a plate it went right through and I shot the 7N6 at a stack of phone books the rounds would only go about 3 to 4 in. into the books then curve & exit the side of the stack.
So I figure the 7N6 would be good for home defense where you don't want penetration. And the steel core would be good for busting through concrete block walls, car doors, or gas tanks. All you would need to do is mark the ammo type on the mags.

 

[chevy2]

AR15 carbine with 6 30 round mags full of full metal jacket and soft points.