Right to work?

[45fan]

Right to work, in the interpretation that is/has been proposed in this state, is aimed squarely at breaking unions, and taking away bargaining power from the workers.

In full disclosure, I am in a skilled trade union, but I do not support ALL of the politics that my union supports as a collective.

Throwing all unions in the same pot and calling then all bad is pure ignorance to what unions actually do and how they operate.
Do I like paying union dues? No, but I like the benefits that I gain from the bargaining powers that my union provides. Giving people the option to get these same benefits without the duty to support the people who bargain for these benefits is, in my opinion, no different than our welfare system, taking from those that did the work, and giving to those that do not want to work for it.

As for forcing someone to join a union to work, nobody is FORCED to go to any particular place, or company to work, McDonalds is almost always right around the corner. In the skilled trades, there are many times more non union counterparts to the union numbers. The only difference is that the union workers have a voice that tends to get attention from people that can make a difference.

And for those that believe that prevailing wage is automatically set at the union wage, maybe a little research into the process that sets those wages will make you look a bit less ignorant. Unions are involved in those decisions, but so are ABC representatives, and government officials. Facts are presented, and a decision is made that puts all companies on a level playing field when bidding on government funded jobs. Just as often as not, non union companies get the contract, so WHO benefits in that instance?

Blanket statements putting down all unions is just as ignorant as bigotry, racism, sexism, or any of the other isms that have fallen out of social fashion. If you have a pint that you dislike, look into it, do the research, and make your own INFORMED decision.

 

[Sweetums]

I don't have an issue with someone choosing not to be a member of the union. My biggest problem with the legislation is that it forces unions to represent non members.

With where I work, you can choose not to be a member of the union, but if you do, you are entirely on your own with the company in all aspects (wages, benefits, etc).

I don't think that a union should be forced to represent someone who doesn't pay dues. The union dues cover the union operations, the costs associated with representation and when needed, lawyers.

 

[Denny347]

I have never understood the belief system that anyone owes me anything, or that I can somehow force my employer to bend to my will. I also don't understand the battered wife syndrome displayed whereby someone would continue to work at a job that they are miserable at. I would never work at a job that I hated, nor would I begrudge my crappy employer because I was ill-prepared to reenter the job market.


Bottom line: If you don't like your job, quit. Find a new one you will like. Let someone else work the crappy job. If you don't like the way you are treated or respected, get a new career. If you think business iis about providing jobs, raise your own capital and start your own business.

My mother worked 3 crappy jobs she hated AT THE SAME TIME. Quit? Is life really that black and white for you? My mother worked 3 low paying jobs so she could raise me and my sister and pay the mountain of debt left from the divorce. My father went into hiding from creditors so they went to my mom to collect. People work crappy jobs because they HAVE TO. It pays the bills. Having a job at all is becoming a luxury. My mom is the strongest person I know. She got up every morning to a job she loathed but did so anyway because it was her responsibility. Then she would go to her second job after the first. On her days off she worked her 3rd. Not much time to be job shopping. Life isn't so cut and dry. Maybe this helps you understand WHY some people work jobs they hate.

 

[flagtag]

Flagtag,

I would suggest trying to run and/or supporting a candidate you like.

This sounds like a good example of the downside of Unions.

It would be good of you to start attending the Union meetings and getting more involved to change things for the better.

Also, consider contacting the NLRB and looking into your rights as a dues paying Union member. Much like in other areas you have to threaten some folks w/ a lawyer perhaps in your case threaten with outside interference.

You can also hold a vote to decertify the Union.

Good Luck!

Regards,

Doug

We have contacted NRLB and were given the information needed to decertify, the forms, and were told when we can get things going. We have to wait until time to vote for a union (a year from now).
We have the petition forms ready to go, and, as I said before, we are also looking at other unions - or - forming our own with only the employees of our location. (That way, the most of the dues money would stay at our location and could be used for OUR needs.)

Of course, we have to fight the disinformation given out by the three "representatives" at our location (they don't want to lose their positions) and had to print out the truth. (They were telling everyone that they would lose their jobs, etc.) BUT, as more of them learn that "our" steward won't even file grievences on their behalf (they have had to go over their heads to file) the word is getting out and more are getting fed up.

It's just that we have to put up with our current situation for another year.

 

[KG1]

My mother worked 3 crappy jobs she hated AT THE SAME TIME. Quit? Is life really that black and white for you? My mother worked 3 low paying jobs so she could raise me and my sister and pay the mountain of debt left from the divorce. My father went into hiding from creditors so they went to my mom to collect. People work crappy jobs because they HAVE TO. It pays the bills. Having a job at all is becoming a luxury. My mom is the strongest person I know. She got up every morning to a job she loathed but did so anyway because it was her responsibility. Then she would go to her second job after the first. On her days off she worked her 3rd. Not much time to be job shopping. Life isn't so cut and dry. Maybe this helps you understand WHY some people work jobs they hate.

To your Mom. We were in a similar situation when I was younger and there was 4 of us kids.

 

[jeremy]

I am surprised by how many here do not understand economics...

 

[flagtag]

I am surprised by how many here do not understand economics...

Please expand. To what are you referring?

 

[John Galt]

I am surprised by how many here do not understand economics...

 

[Denny347]

To your Mom. We were in a similar situation when I was younger and there was 4 of us kids.

Thank you, I like to think I get my work ethic from her.

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

My mother worked 3 crappy jobs she hated AT THE SAME TIME. Quit? Is life really that black and white for you? My mother worked 3 low paying jobs so she could raise me and my sister and pay the mountain of debt left from the divorce. My father went into hiding from creditors so they went to my mom to collect. People work crappy jobs because they HAVE TO. It pays the bills. Having a job at all is becoming a luxury. My mom is the strongest person I know. She got up every morning to a job she loathed but did so anyway because it was her responsibility. Then she would go to her second job after the first. On her days off she worked her 3rd. Not much time to be job shopping. Life isn't so cut and dry. Maybe this helps you understand WHY some people work jobs they hate.

And so did my mom and dad. They worked crappy jobs their whole lives because they were undereducated and unprepared for the challenges of the technical age. I watched my dad (who was in a skilled union) work two jobs at a time to replace the union job he had because they voted to go on strike over $.10 per hour. After the third time he did that he quit the job and the union and never looked back. He had a motorized paper route that he worked for over 20 years until they let everyone go. I respect everyone who does what it takes to care for their families. With all due respect neither you or anyone else has a monopoly on sad stories.

My response? I am over educated. I can do absolutely anything I put my mind to. I refuse to work at a job I hate. I refuse to live a life I hate. I refuse to be so feeble minded that I have to rely on ANYONE (and I mean ANYONE) else for ANYTHING. Where there were no jobs available that were acceptable I founded my first company. I'm on my fifth, and each has been more successful than the last. Yes, life is that black and white to me. It has to be, otherwise I will sink into mediocrity. I am truly blessed.

Would I do anything necessary to feed my family? Absolutely. But I'm damn sure going to do it on my terms, untill that is no longer a possibility.

Right to work, in the interpretation that is/has been proposed in this state, is aimed squarely at breaking unions, and taking away bargaining power from the workers.

In full disclosure, I am in a skilled trade union, but I do not support ALL of the politics that my union supports as a collective.

Throwing all unions in the same pot and calling then all bad is pure ignorance to what unions actually do and how they operate.
Do I like paying union dues? No, but I like the benefits that I gain from the bargaining powers that my union provides. Giving people the option to get these same benefits without the duty to support the people who bargain for these benefits is, in my opinion, no different than our welfare system, taking from those that did the work, and giving to those that do not want to work for it.

As for forcing someone to join a union to work, nobody is FORCED to go to any particular place, or company to work, McDonalds is almost always right around the corner. In the skilled trades, there are many times more non union counterparts to the union numbers. The only difference is that the union workers have a voice that tends to get attention from people that can make a difference.

And for those that believe that prevailing wage is automatically set at the union wage, maybe a little research into the process that sets those wages will make you look a bit less ignorant. Unions are involved in those decisions, but so are ABC representatives, and government officials. Facts are presented, and a decision is made that puts all companies on a level playing field when bidding on government funded jobs. Just as often as not, non union companies get the contract, so WHO benefits in that instance?

Blanket statements putting down all unions is just as ignorant as bigotry, racism, sexism, or any of the other isms that have fallen out of social fashion. If you have a pint that you dislike, look into it, do the research, and make your own INFORMED decision.

Does your union have the power to shut job a company's production, job site or otherwise interfere with the owner's right to their property?

 

[dross]

My mother worked 3 crappy jobs she hated AT THE SAME TIME. Quit? Is life really that black and white for you? My mother worked 3 low paying jobs so she could raise me and my sister and pay the mountain of debt left from the divorce. My father went into hiding from creditors so they went to my mom to collect. People work crappy jobs because they HAVE TO. It pays the bills. Having a job at all is becoming a luxury. My mom is the strongest person I know. She got up every morning to a job she loathed but did so anyway because it was her responsibility. Then she would go to her second job after the first. On her days off she worked her 3rd. Not much time to be job shopping. Life isn't so cut and dry. Maybe this helps you understand WHY some people work jobs they hate.

Not everyone has the same options, this is true. But someone else's lack of options is not a check drawn on the accounts of those with more options.

Respectfully, Denny, your parents wouldn't have had even their "crappy" jobs unless someone else had risked their own capital, heart, and soul to start a business. Any business is more likely to fail than to succeed. I've attempted two business ventures in my life, failed at both of them. Starting a successful business does not appear to be a part of my skill set.

I must choose between the best options I have. I may also choose to increase my options through self-improvement. Some people don't even have those options. None of that, however, creates an obligation from those who do.

My response? I am over educated. I can do absolutely anything I put my mind to. I refuse to work at a job I hate. I refuse to live a life I hate. I refuse to be so feeble minded that I have to rely on ANYONE (and I mean ANYONE) else for ANYTHING. Where there were no jobs available that were acceptable I founded my first company. I'm on my fifth, and each has been more successful than the last. Yes, life is that black and white to me. It has to be, otherwise I will sink into mediocrity. I am truly blessed.

Would I do anything necessary to feed my family?

I wish I could rep you again.

Fifteen or so years ago, I took my Master's degree (which along with my B.A. I got while going to school at night after twelve hour work days while I was in the Army, while listening to my fellow soldiers complain about how they couldn't fit school into our heavy schedule) to Wal Mart and worked as a bicycle mechanic. A month later I was running their training program.

I've gotten several jobs only on the strength of my researching the requirements and going to the interview and explaining why I thought I could do the job.

The options are there. Semperfi, it's clear you are an exceptional person. You can do things some other people can't. Clearly, I'm y smarter than you (you were a Marine after all ) yet I've never had your success in business. Yet the idea that I should envy what you have, or worse, that you should OWE me something is not just unthinkable, it's disgusting.

We wouldn't have jobs without people like you. To me, the small to medium business owner should be some of the most highly respected people in our society.

There has been very little in my life I've set my mind to do that I haven't had some success at. If people understood just how hard it is to start and maintain a business, so, so much harder than ANY job that pays an hourly wage, they might not be so quick to so casually talk about what that person "owes."

The business owner has already given at the office.

 

[jeremy]

Please expand. To what are you referring?

Not really...

I mean what do I have to explain to you far more educated persons than I. I am just an ignorant farm kid who barely graduated from Public High School and ended up being a Mechanic in the Army. WTF do I know...

 

[John Galt]

Not everyone has the same options, this is true. But someone else's lack of options is not a check drawn on the accounts of those with more options.

Respectfully, Denny, your parents wouldn't have had even their "crappy" jobs unless someone else had risked their own capital, heart, and soul to start a business. Any business is more likely to fail than to succeed. I've attempted two business ventures in my life, failed at both of them. Starting a successful business does not appear to be a part of my skill set.

I must choose between the best options I have. I may also choose to increase my options through self-improvement. Some people don't even have those options. None of that, however, creates an obligation from those who do.



I wish I could rep you again.

Fifteen or so years ago, I took my Master's degree (which along with my B.A. I got while going to school at night after twelve hour work days while I was in the Army, while listening to my fellow soldiers complain about how they couldn't fit school into our heavy schedule) to Wal Mart and worked as a bicycle mechanic. A month later I was running their training program.

I've gotten several jobs only on the strength of my researching the requirements and going to the interview and explaining why I thought I could do the job.

The options are there. Semperfi, it's clear you are an exceptional person. You can do things some other people can't. Clearly, I'm y smarter than you (you were a Marine after all ) yet I've never had your success in business. Yet the idea that I should envy what you have, or worse, that you should OWE me something is not just unthinkable, it's disgusting.

We wouldn't have jobs without people like you. To me, the small to medium business owner should be some of the most highly respected people in our society.

There has been very little in my life I've set my mind to do that I haven't had some success at. If people understood just how hard it is to start and maintain a business, so, so much harder than ANY job that pays an hourly wage, they might not be so quick to so casually talk about what that person "owes."

The business owner has already given at the office.

This should be required reading in every grade in every school in the nation. The fact that "rights" can exist at the expense of another is one of the most disgusting and vile things that can be allowed to fester in a society. THIS kind of developing dialogue is what rocks and helps to educate those that seek!

 

[.356luger]

Did you have a point in this collection of grammar errors and misspellings? Try as I might, I cannot find one coherent point of logic.

That's ok now why don't you bow out of what has turned into a union smearing campaign and let the adults unravel this ball of yarn. Don't worry I'll reopen this after it passes only I'll open it in "SHTF"

 

[rlidgard]

k

 

[Blackhawk2001]

If unions are so great, why do you suppose so many people hear are "smearing" them?

Explain in simple terms, if you can, please.

 

[flagtag]

Not really...

I mean what do I have to explain to you far more educated persons than I. I am just an ignorant farm kid who barely graduated from Public High School and ended up being a Mechanic in the Army. WTF do I know...

Sorry. I don't attend pity parties.

 

[flagtag]

If unions are so great, why do you suppose so many people hear are "smearing" them?

Explain in simple terms, if you can, please.

At one time, unions WERE great. They had their place. Now, tho, they are political and - it seems - no longer care about the people they are supposed to support - only big companies and government. Sad decline!

 

[88GT]

My mother worked 3 crappy jobs she hated AT THE SAME TIME. Quit? Is life really that black and white for you? My mother worked 3 low paying jobs so she could raise me and my sister and pay the mountain of debt left from the divorce. My father went into hiding from creditors so they went to my mom to collect. People work crappy jobs because they HAVE TO. It pays the bills. Having a job at all is becoming a luxury. My mom is the strongest person I know. She got up every morning to a job she loathed but did so anyway because it was her responsibility. Then she would go to her second job after the first. On her days off she worked her 3rd. Not much time to be job shopping. Life isn't so cut and dry. Maybe this helps you understand WHY some people work jobs they hate.

I think your story proves the point in a rather round-about way. People have options. Extorting money from the employer because one's life choices leave him with fewer rather than more shouldn't be one of them though. If one doesn't have the option of quitting and find a new job (and honestly, there's no reason your mom couldn't have--only that she didn't see it as economically beneficially at the time to change her course), and that's understandable) then one realizes that his lot is to "suffer" at a less than perfect job unless and until HE can make the change.

Adults recognize this and do what needs to be done. Children who haven't yet learned that actions have consequences try to change everything else about their situation except themselves.

That's ok now why don't you bow out of what has turned into a union smearing campaign and let the adults unravel this ball of yarn. Don't worry I'll reopen this after it passes only I'll open it in "SHTF"

So that's a 'no?'

 

[cbseniour]

Workers always have the right to work somewhere else but they should not have to pay union dues if they don't want to belong to the union
Right to work and prevailing wage have cost Indiana much.