RIP round

[Cpt Caveman]

There was another thread about this round. Couldn't find it, but I didn't look too hard.

G2 RIP 9mm: no more effective than a .22 LR | Gun Nuts Media

Noob will buy it I'm sure.

 

[HeadlessRoland]

I was waiting for it to be Box O' Truth-ed. Physics dictates that when you sacrifice mass, you sacrifice penetration. I don't care what 'gel' they used, a smaller, lighter-weight piece of metal going at the same velocity as a larger, heavier piece of metal, will penetrate less readily than will the heavier round. Pure physics. 96 grains, fragmenting into eight (okay, nine) pieces? Gives roughly what, 12 grains per piece of shrapnel? (Video says 5-6gr. each, so I suppose the main piece is about one-half the weight of the initial mass.) The lightest weight I could even find for .22LR is 20gr. I remain unimpressed. When they start doing this with .50 BMG or 20mm, maybe I'll snap to attention.

 

[HeadlessRoland]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?annota...&feature=iv&src_vid=psGFPRpWZ3w&v=_27b9P0dfuI

 

[jworm1420]

I was waiting for it to be Box O' Truth-ed. Physics dictates that when you sacrifice mass, you sacrifice penetration. I don't care what 'gel' they used, a smaller, lighter-weight piece of metal going at the same velocity as a larger, heavier piece of metal, will penetrate less readily than will the heavier round. Pure physics. 96 grains, fragmenting into eight (okay, nine) pieces? Gives roughly what, 12 grains per piece of shrapnel? (Video says 5-6gr. each, so I suppose the main piece is about one-half the weight of the initial mass.) The lightest weight I could even find for .22LR is 20gr. I remain unimpressed. When they start doing this with .50 BMG or 20mm, maybe I'll snap to attention.

You are absolutely right in your response to the physics side and potential penetration but that round would still do some serious damage to a human body IMHO.... I mean yes u would have roughly 49-54 grain projectile penetrate (albeit not as far) Abd then have what is basically shrapnel rip the the other area of said person body. I'm not saying Ur wrong or I'm disagreeing with u. But I seem to think that round would seriously f**k someone up. Just for example a round penetrates at about the belly button area, the shrapnel could travel and hit a lung, somewhat like when a .22 round bounces of a bone and keeps moving inside. As I said I'm not saying Ur wrong I just think it would b more effective than maybe Ur giving it credit for

 

[BigMatt]

It also looked like he shot it with more than 2 .22 rounds.

The gel with the .22 rounds in it had 6 segments in it and one slug at the end. I would like to see the test he did with the .22's.

So, in summary, you can make more damage with .22 than any larger caliber if you shoot the gel enough times.

 

[HeadlessRoland]

You are absolutely right in your response to the physics side and potential penetration but that round would still do some serious damage to a human body IMHO.... I mean yes u would have roughly 49-54 grain projectile penetrate (albeit not as far) Abd then have what is basically shrapnel rip the the other area of said person body. I'm not saying Ur wrong or I'm disagreeing with u. But I seem to think that round would seriously f**k someone up. Just for example a round penetrates at about the belly button area, the shrapnel could travel and hit a lung, somewhat like when a .22 round bounces of a bone and keeps moving inside. As I said I'm not saying Ur wrong I just think it would b more effective than maybe Ur giving it credit for

I wouldn't volunteer to get hit with one. But neither would I carry this round when there already exist a lot of excellent, better choices. I carry Golden Saber 230 grain, or Federal HST depending on what I'm wearing. To pay a premium for a self-fragmenting, largely shallowly-penetrating round is something I will not do. I would love to see some tests with .50 BMG, because then we might have something spectacular at close range, but I remain unimpressed with its external ballistics. Note, again, that unimpressed with does not equate to 'shoot me in the face with'.

 

[M67]

And "specialty" ammo like this always makes me wonder, why are people worried about carrying reloads for self defense while you can carry one of these "specialized" rounds that are specifically designs to create a large of mount of damage or cause death.

Not a fan of the ammo, looks too movie gun ninja-y, way hokey. But, I'm sure there will be people who will HAVE to have it.

Ehhhh....

 

[jworm1420]

I wouldn't volunteer to get hit with one. But neither would I carry this round when there already exist a lot of excellent, better choices. I carry Golden Saber 230 grain, or Federal HST depending on what I'm wearing. To pay a premium for a self-fragmenting, largely shallowly-penetrating round is something I will not do. I would love to see some tests with .50 BMG, because then we might have something spectacular at close range, but I remain unimpressed with its external ballistics. Note, again, that unimpressed with does not equate to 'shoot me in the face with'.

I tend to agree with what Ur saying.... I dnt think I would carry that round I'm my carry weapon either. As I'm like u ther is nothing like good ole SD hollow that have been tested and proven to be as effective as it gets. I also really would t spend 50$ for 20 rds of it either but I do think in a SD situation it may prove more effective than the .22 that the test says it's not any better than I have a hard time beleiveing a fragmenting 9mn round is no more effective than a .22. That's all I'm really trying to say.

 

[sassdan]

will stay with Federal HST

 

[HeadlessRoland]

I tend to agree with what Ur saying.... I dnt think I would carry that round I'm my carry weapon either. As I'm like u ther is nothing like good ole SD hollow that have been tested and proven to be as effective as it gets. I also really would t spend 50$ for 20 rds of it either but I do think in a SD situation it may prove more effective than the .22 that the test says it's not any better than I have a hard time beleiveing a fragmenting 9mn round is no more effective than a .22. That's all I'm really trying to say.

Aside from the penetration, the one thing that this new RIP does have going for it is that there are at least a lot of trocars to break off, and that alone makes it better than any single similarly-weighted and sized projectile. And it does have enough of a punch to it that I'm not going to volunteer to take one to the face. But in my mind, this is not what I'm looking for in a self-defense round. I'd rather have an intact, peeled-back HP that sheds none of its weight, and makes a sane compromise between expansion and penetration. Which is precisely what I've got now. If other people want to buy it, I certainly wouldn't want to stop them, but I do wish they would consider the matter fully before making a selection, and buying into the hype. When it first came out, I even said to myself 'that looks sweet,' and then I thought 'well, wouldn't shedding that much mass affect penetration'? And so I waited for the conclusive results to come out, and they have, and it's pretty much an accurate initial assessment. This would be better than nothing, and heck, with a little modification to the trocars, I might even come on board. Imagine a round where these trocars wouldn't expand until they were already in soft tissue, but wouldn't completely detach? You'd have a projectile almost an inch diameter barrelling through flesh and vitals, which would exceed the current diameters achieved by the best SD rounds on the market now by almost 100%. But the devil is in the details and I imagine that if something like that were easy to do or even feasible, one of the major manufacturers would have brought something like that to the table.

I agree that a fragmenting 9mm is superior to a .22LR, if only due to number of projectiles.

 

[melensdad]

Aside from the penetration, the one thing that this new RIP does have going for it is that there are at least a lot of trocars to break off, and that alone makes it better than any single similarly-weighted and sized projectile.

I'm not sure those tiny 'trocars' will actually do much. Their mass is so low they certainly will not penetrate well. And I'm not one to believe a manufacturer's video, but I suspect that the trocars will more likely lead to superficial wounds that don't penetrate into the vital organs.

I think this bullet might actually perform better if there were 4, instead of 8 trocars. The bullet breaks into 9 pieces, 8 trocars plus the base. The base seems like it is the only mass heavy enough to carry any real kinetic energy and penetrate. Making the trocars twice the size and, therefore twice the weight, MIGHT, just MAYBE, increase the penetration AND the spread of this round by having 5 divergent objects, penetrate in their own directions, inside the body cavity. Assuming they have enough mass to actually carry them into the vitals.

 

[jworm1420]

I'm not sure those tiny 'trocars' will actually do much. Their mass is so low they certainly will not penetrate well. And I'm not one to believe a manufacturer's video, but I suspect that the trocars will more likely lead to superficial wounds that don't penetrate into the vital organs.

I think this bullet might actually perform better if there were 4, instead of 8 trocars. The bullet breaks into 9 pieces, 8 trocars plus the base. The base seems like it is the only mass heavy enough to carry any real kinetic energy and penetrate. Making the trocars twice the size and, therefore twice the weight, MIGHT, just MAYBE, increase the penetration AND the spread of this round by having 5 divergent objects, penetrate in their own directions, inside the body cavity. Assuming they have enough mass to actually carry them into the vitals.

i agree with that. i think if there were only 4 that it would be more efficient. makes everything a little heavier….and penetrate a little better all around..

 

[Degtyaryov]

I'd like to see it on the box 'o truth. Interesting idea, but I doubt it'd keep enough mass to penetrate very far.

 

[snapping turtle]

I have a load for my 35 rem pistol I use on groundhogs with 125 grain hollow point bullet traveling very fast. It does not penetrate well at all. Not needed in what I use it for but it does work like a little propellant powered hand grenade. Very explosive and the ground hogs do not like it at all. Darn thing shoots well at distance also for a hollow point round. I figured it would tumble quicker with that big old hole in the front. I would never use it on deer but if I want to blow a ground big nearly in half it works like a champ.

this round is going no where near as quick as my rifle round. I think they took this approach to the round.

 

[USMC-Johnson]

I still have people coming into the shop at least weekly (although it has slowed down) asking for this round. Quite entertaining watching their reaction when you tell them that it is garbage.