Rob Pincus - Appropriate Open Carry

[the1kidd03]

OK, but remember that if you're throwing it out as fact, I'll be looking for something more than just YOUR conclusions.

I can remember one well, but it's not really pertinent to this subject. Just an example of failed leadership in a corporation. No intel on the specific leadership styles which were used, just a general synopsis of how the leadership in the organization resulted in a significant failure for lack of research. (WalMart's pull from Germany)

If you're looking for hard evidence which specifically correlates a person's immediate leadership style to the success or failure of the entirety of the business it'll be difficult. Namely because typical executives in this sense pass the buck of blame and are relatively unwilling to admit to their own faults. Which demographically speaking would hold true to that category of leadership style (totalitarian.) It's never their fault. Yet, companies or departments always seem to go downhill upon their entry.

Although, if you wanted immediate response a simple google search will validate what I've said. After about 5 minutes of skimming half a dozen articles they all articulate what I've been saying. Adhering to a single leadership style, particularly a controlling/commanding one does not last long or provide for success for the person or the team. It demotivates employees, demoralizes them, etc. This then leads to high turnover rates and/or loss of production. Leaving your workforce with the bottom of the talent barrel which doesn't lead to more efficiency.

Now if you're misunderstanding what I'm describing than obviously there will be a discrepancy there or if I've misrepresented my point, but otherwise everything I've been able to view in the last few minutes substantiates my presented perspective.

 

[the1kidd03]

They crack me up.

 

[iChokePeople]

I can remember one well, but it's not really pertinent to this subject. Just an example of failed leadership in a corporation. No intel on the specific leadership styles which were used, just a general synopsis of how the leadership in the organization resulted in a significant failure for lack of research. (WalMart's pull from Germany)

If you're looking for hard evidence which specifically correlates a person's immediate leadership style to the success or failure of the entirety of the business it'll be difficult. Namely because typical executives in this sense pass the buck of blame and are relatively unwilling to admit to their own faults. Which demographically speaking would hold true to that category of leadership style (totalitarian.) It's never their fault. Yet, companies or departments always seem to go downhill upon their entry.

Although, if you wanted immediate response a simple google search will validate what I've said. After about 5 minutes of skimming half a dozen articles they all articulate what I've been saying. Adhering to a single leadership style, particularly a controlling/commanding one does not last long or provide for success for the person or the team. Now if you're misunderstanding what I'm describing than obviously there will be a discrepancy there.

Five minutes of googling will confirm nearly any position you choose to support. My position was that a leader needs to be able to address issues, even if it will hurt feelings or won't be popular. You responded to that with a claim that the opposite is true and that businesses are failing because of it. Show me.

 

[Manatee]

Rob is a good instructor and very level-headed.

Good video.

 

[the1kidd03]

Five minutes of googling will confirm nearly any position you choose to support. My position was that a leader needs to be able to address issues, even if it will hurt feelings or won't be popular. You responded to that with a claim that the opposite is true and that businesses are failing because of it. Show me.

No. What I intended to convey was that the totalitarian or "command and control" leadership style leads to inefficient businesses. Not necessarily whether or not they hurt someone's feelings. If someone has a difference in opinion, there is bound to be some level of hurt feelings. That has little to do with chosen style of leadership. When I refer to this style of leadership I'm referring to the type you see in the military culture. "Leader barks orders, expects to be followed, doesn't pay attention to the input of those he's barking at, etc."

This leads to a relatively inefficient business/organization.

Now, if they continue to do this relentlessly (offend one another), I can just about guarantee you that one of the two in those exchanges will not be with the company in the long run. That will be determined typically by the cunningness and moral perspective of the two.

Now, there's a world of things to consider whether something is "popular" or not. Indeed sometimes leaders must make decisions which people don't like, but if the majority of his "team" doesn't like it an appropriate leader would inspect/investigate that rather than reassure themselves of their own supremacy.

My apologies for the confusion. I'm associating your interpretation of "PC" as being that of a "command and control" type of leadership style when they aren't really a similar concept. Typically, a person who follows that style is the least concerned with being what you seem to feel is "PC."

 

[griffin]

If the OC Community did a better job of policing their own and being critical of the Confrontational OCers

What's a "confrontational OCer?" Is it one who carries a long arm, or just one who carries a holstered pistol and wears a voice recorder for his own protection against a LEO who may not tell the truth?

 

[cedartop]

I know because it is my holster . I use the N82 Tactical original tuckable. It does not have a retention strap and is basically a flexible fabric that holds the pistol in place. It is very comfortable and makes for an easy draw, but tends to collapse under the weight of the belt once the gun is removed.

Patented Design «

Most good holsters have retention. Some is active, (thumbreak e.g.) some is passive.

 

[cedartop]

No. What I intended to convey was that the totalitarian or "command and control" leadership style leads to inefficient businesses. Not necessarily whether or not they hurt someone's feelings. If someone has a difference in opinion, there is bound to be some level of hurt feelings. That has little to do with chosen style of leadership. When I refer to this style of leadership I'm referring to the type you see in the military culture. "Leader barks orders, expects to be followed, doesn't pay attention to the input of those he's barking at, etc."

This leads to a relatively inefficient business/organization.

Now, if they continue to do this relentlessly (offend one another), I can just about guarantee you that one of the two in those exchanges will not be with the company in the long run. That will be determined typically by the cunningness and moral perspective of the two.

Now, there's a world of things to consider whether something is "popular" or not. Indeed sometimes leaders must make decisions which people don't like, but if the majority of his "team" doesn't like it an appropriate leader would inspect/investigate that rather than reassure themselves of their own supremacy.

My apologies for the confusion. I'm associating your interpretation of "PC" as being that of a "command and control" type of leadership style when they aren't really a similar concept. Typically, a person who follows that style is the least concerned with being what you seem to feel is "PC."

kidd, I get the impression that all of your information is from education, not experience. Is that a fair assessment? (Yes, I know of your military service, I am talking real world.)

 

[griffin]

I had a detailed post, but stroked a wrong key and accidentally deleted it.

Next time that happens, hit CTRL-Z.

 

[the1kidd03]

kidd, I get the impression that all of your information is from education, not experience. Is that a fair assessment? (Yes, I know of your military service, I am talking real world.)

Your assessment would be inaccurate. I left a career with a large, multi-national manufacturer earning over $65k/year to enlist in the USMC as a grunt before I got too old to do it. I was with that company for several years. Prior to that I worked with an industry leading corporate service provider that has since dissolved (sold out)....

Needless to say, transitioning to the military was a bit of an "income shock" to say the least. The cultural aspect didn't bother me because it runs in my family. I only decided to complete my masters/education upon separating from the Corps. I didn't want to waste what GI Bill benefits I was elligible for so I enrolled.

 

[the1kidd03]

Next time that happens, hit CTRL-Z.

Thanks. That probably would have saved me some frustration. I thought there was a "cheat" for it, but couldn't think of what it was.

 

[griffin]

If and when I OC in the future it will only be after finding a holster better suited for it... with a retention strap.

Retention straps are easy for an assailant to undo. Might I suggest a Safariland ALS or SLS holster, or even (gasp) a Blackhawk QCQ.

 

[the1kidd03]

Retention straps are easy for an assailant to undo. Might I suggest a Safariland ALS or SLS holster, or even (gasp) a Blackhawk QCQ.

I like safariland , but for ordinary every day civilian carry find them to be rather large/bulky. Of course I'm not a very large guy either so take that with a grain of salt. I'm planning to try the G-code this year and hoping it will be a bit smaller while still providing that retention.

 

[ATM]

I carry openly in a Raven Phantom OWB

...without any active retention features!



I'm sure that classifies me as an irresponsible and inappropriate carrier according to some.


meh.

 

[the1kidd03]

I carry openly in a Raven Phantom OWB

...without any active retention features!



I'm sure that classifies me as an irresponsible and inappropriate carrier according to some.


meh.

Out of curiosity, and not intending to date you or anything but, how many years have you been carrying in such a fashion?

 

[Hohn]

I sort of agree with RP on the OC doing more harm than good in a sense. IF the perception is that people are OCing because they are out looking to engage the cops and put their pathetic egos on youtube.

But I think that folks that are OCing in a way that is clearly NOT intended to either draw attention can be helpful because it will help normalize the carrying of a firearm in public.

As it is right now, there are FAR too many people that automatically freak when they see a gun and assume nefarious intent-- they then call the cops and report MWG. We need to get to the point where someone can see a gun openly secured on a person and not have an overpowering impulse to act.

Sort of like the Old West. Everyone had a gun, and it wasn't any kind of big deal to see one. Everyone knew how to use one. People tended to behave somewhat politely.


So long as people are OCing in a way that reflects well on LAGOers, then I think it's a net benefit for sure.

The problem is the knuckleheads out there strolling malls with AKs looking to make a scene.

OCing in and of itself is neither bad nor good-- it's all about why a person OCs and how they present and represent.

 

[griffin]

There are half-a-dozen or so known youtube OCers who carry long guns and get the attention. There are thousands of everyday handgun OCers who you never read about because we just go about our business. Usually the only time you might hear about us is when law enforcement makes it an issue because they don't know the laws themselves. Such as OCing while voting, for example. Or trying to get a restaurant owner to kick an OCer out. Or...

 

[ATM]

Out of curiosity, and not intending to date you or anything but, how many years have you been carrying in such a fashion?

Carrying in the Raven the last 3 years or so, but carrying primarily openly with little or no active retention features 25+ years.

 

[Rob Pincus]

I don't think he should hide his opinion simply because ATM's rabid minions will be upset or dogpile him. I totally agree that he went over the top with a few of his statements here in the thread, but I cut him a little slack because he was being minion-piled.

Thanks...

 

[Rob Pincus]

Rob is a good instructor and very level-headed.

Good video.

Honestly, that is the best response I could hope for to any vid I put out. Thanks.