Ron Paul: "They're terrorists because we're occupiers"

[haldir]

YouTube - 12/28/09 Ron Paul "They're Terrorists Because We're Occupiers" Larry King Live


Obama believes essentially the same thing: that the jihad is a response to various actions of the West, which if we stop doing, all will be well. In line with this assumption, Paul apparently thinks that the Flight 253 jihad attack was a response to U.S. airstrikes in Yemen. However, according to an unnamed source in the White House quoted by Jake Tapper at ABC News (thanks to Benedict), the Flight 253 jihadist had set his plot in motion before the airstrike. And it certainly seems that Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab had his mind on jihad for years.

Also, the idea that occupation causes terrorism ignores, as always, the fact that the jihadists may hate us for reasons of their own, arising from their own belief system and ideology, and not dependent upon our actions at all. Oh, and who is occupying Yemen again?

 

[Ashkelon]

Of course occupation breeds terrorism! This is making a wild soundbite out of the obvious by putting an exclamation point behind it. History has always been consistent that occupying forces from a geographical region with no assimilated cultural or familial ties will be subject to insurgent forces. Economic interest is not enough to change a regions governance. Never has been never will be. Shaky foundation from the start. Not a great mystery to solve.

This is presenting just half of the story. The other is why I agree with Haldir. How the hell can we expect to walk into a region of the world that has only has brief spurts of peace throughout recorded history and make substantive headway? Can't be done. We have business to take care of here at home. They will try to blow us up regardless due to their religious and cultural attitudes. We will not change thousands of years of unrest.

We are simply different. No amount of global group hug or anger management therapy is going to solve it. Coca Cola adverstiising is not a legitimate foreign policy. We can't all just get along, have a coke, teach the world to sing, and then smile.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Of course occupation breeds terrorism!

How long have we occupied Yemen and Nigeria?

 

[antsi]

if we stop doing, all will be well

To be fair to Paul, I don't think he's saying that leaving those countries will magically bring about instant peace. It is a fact that the presence of foreign troops does frequently breed resistance among the locals. Sometimes it's necessary - and there are some legit points to be made on both sides about whether what we're doing right now in Afghanistan is truly necessary - but even when it is absolutely necessary for our troops to occupy a foreign country, we better be aware of the fact that some segment of the locals is likely to resent it, and that resentment may be exploited by the bad guys. If we go in blindly expecting to be universally hailed as saviors and counting on universal cooperation from the locals, we're likely to get blind-sided.

 

[Ashkelon]

Not sure whether you are joking on this one or not Kirk.

Whether you have a man on the ground or a bank note pulling the strings doesn't matter. Financial entanglement, the propping up of despots or the use of political leverage through third parties and/or other nations is still going to be perceived as attempts at subjugation or occupation. It boils down to attempts to control self determination.

Whether it is the USS Cole in range of a rowboat or a diamond or oil lease broker structuring corrupt government leases or a GI knocking the sand off his boots there perspective of the subjugated party doesn't change.

IMO these people simply don't want our help.

 

[haldir]

and there you have it. As long as we (not just government but western corporations) do business with these countries (government or businesses) then the indigenous population has an excuse to carry out terrorist attacks against us.

 

[Bapak2ja]

Compare our business practices with those of China.

Not sure whether you are joking on this one or not Kirk.

Whether you have a man on the ground or a bank note pulling the strings doesn't matter. Financial entanglement, the propping up of despots or the use of political leverage through third parties and/or other nations is still going to be perceived as attempts at subjugation or occupation. It boils down to attempts to control self determination.

Whether it is the USS Cole in range of a rowboat or a diamond or oil lease broker structuring corrupt government leases or a GI knocking the sand off his boots there perspective of the subjugated party doesn't change.

IMO these people simply don't want our help.

Friend, compare our business practices with those of China. China is using its financial power to gain domination over Africa and Asia. What the US has done is now being done by others. The issue is not how evil America is or has been, but jealousy of our achievements and envy at our prosperity. There is also the religious-political worldview that asserts all things were created by Allah and belong to Allah's people. Therefore, it is the right and duty of Allah's people (i.e. the Dar al-Islam) to take by force what is held by the infidel.

It makes no difference what we do or have done. The Muslim sees the world as created for them to own. Muhammad taught it; Muhammad did it; and Muhammad taught the true Muslim to do the same. The only thing is has to do with the USA is that we have things they want and we are in their way.

 

[BloodEclipse]

Ron Paul can't seem to understand that Muslims see us as an enemy regardless of where we are. That is the biggest problem I have with him. Today it's "if we weren't over there", tomorrow it will be "if we only adopt some of their laws". I'm fed up with this "it's all our fault" kind of rhetoric.

 

[femurphy77]

Friend, compare our business practices with those of China. China is using its financial power to gain domination over Africa and Asia. What the US has done is now being done by others. The issue is not how evil America is or has been, but jealousy of our achievements and envy at our prosperity. There is also the religious-political worldview that asserts all things were created by Allah and belong to Allah's people. Therefore, it is the right and duty of Allah's people (i.e. the Dar al-Islam) to take by force what is held by the infidel.

It makes no difference what we do or have done. The Muslim sees the world as created for them to own. Muhammad taught it; Muhammad did it; and Muhammad taught the true Muslim to do the same. The only thing is has to do with the USA is that we have things they want and we are in their way.

We Have A Winnah!!!

 

[dross]

How long have we occupied Yemen and Nigeria?

Not sure whether you are joking on this one or not Kirk.

Whether you have a man on the ground or a bank note pulling the strings doesn't matter. Financial entanglement, the propping up of despots or the use of political leverage through third parties and/or other nations is still going to be perceived as attempts at subjugation or occupation. It boils down to attempts to control self determination.

Whether it is the USS Cole in range of a rowboat or a diamond or oil lease broker structuring corrupt government leases or a GI knocking the sand off his boots there perspective of the subjugated party doesn't change.

IMO these people simply don't want our help.

I believe he was making the point that attacks also come from countries we are not "occupying."

Are you saying we should pull U.S. businesses and military bases from around the world? That our mere involvement around the world is what is creating our enemies?

 

[irishfan]

The middle east has never and will never be a peaceful area of the world. If the Arabs aren't wanting to attack the Jews then they are attacking each other for being a different "tribe" or "division" of the muslim world. We will continue to come under attack until we realize that this is a no win situation and either pull out and stay out or hurt them so badly that there are no enemies left to attack us. Also, many attacks are coming from poor and very uneducated puppets who have intelligent well connected people pulling their strings that have in many cases been educated in America or trained by Americans to fight our "enemies" at the given time. Unfortunately, we are to dependent on the oil and other resources from the middle east to leave immediately but we can stop helping the people that help others hurt us. It is well know that the Saudis support terrorist groups with money as does the UAE and others but we do business with them because of the necessary evil that we should have ended long ago.

 

[wtfd661]

Ron Paul can't seem to understand that Muslims see us as an enemy regardless of where we are. That is the biggest problem I have with him. Today it's "if we weren't over there", tomorrow it will be "if we only adopt some of their laws". I'm fed up with this "it's all our fault" kind of rhetoric.

+1 to this.

Hey here is an idea, if you don't want us to send our military into your country to kick your a** then don't attack us.

 

[turnandshoot4]

How long have we been over there?

 

[Bapak2ja]

The middle east has never and will never be a peaceful area of the world. If the Arabs aren't wanting to attack the Jews then they are attacking each other for being a different "tribe" or "division" of the muslim world. We will continue to come under attack until we realize that this is a no win situation and either pull out and stay out or hurt them so badly that there are no enemies left to attack us. Also, many attacks are coming from poor and very uneducated puppets who have intelligent well connected people pulling their strings that have in many cases been educated in America or trained by Americans to fight our "enemies" at the given time. Unfortunately, we are to dependent on the oil and other resources from the middle east to leave immediately but we can stop helping the people that help others hurt us. It is well know that the Saudis support terrorist groups with money as does the UAE and others but we do business with them because of the necessary evil that we should have ended long ago.

FYI, in 2009 the oil industry discovered the largest oil reserves in the world under the Dakotas and neighboring countries to the south—all in the USA. There is sufficient oil there for at least 200 years at the current rate of use in the USA. The news media won't report on it for fear of hindering the global warming and ecology movement wings of the Obama Party. If we use our own oil, we do not need the Middle East. The environmentalists, the alternative fuel advocates, the NWO folks, etc. do not want us to tap this resource, so the media does not highlight it. It has been reported on the internet, though.

We do not need the Middle East oil if we will have the courage to reject the global warming and environmental lies.

 

[dross]

The middle east has never and will never be a peaceful area of the world..

Let's say that another way - Arabs under Islam have never been and will never be peaceful.

If the Arabs aren't wanting to attack the Jews then they are attacking each other for being a different "tribe" or "division" of the muslim world. .

True. And throughout history have left their desert and attacked and subdued and converted as much territory as they could.

We will continue to come under attack until we realize that this is a no win situation and either pull out and stay out .

What does that mean? Where and what should we pull out of? Are you talking all military bases? Or businesses too?

or hurt them so badly that there are no enemies left to attack us..

Now we're talkin'.

Also, many attacks are coming from poor and very uneducated puppets who have intelligent well connected people pulling their strings that have in many cases been educated in America or trained by Americans to fight our "enemies" at the given time. .

This is simplistic. So now we shouldn't help any Muslims in any situation because they might turn on us? You might have something there, but this is just a subtle way to blame us for other people attacking us. Newsflash, we've been fighting with these people almost since our founding.

Unfortunately, we are to dependent on the oil and other resources from the middle east to leave immediately but we can stop helping the people that help others hurt us. It is well know that the Saudis support terrorist groups with money as does the UAE and others but we do business with them because of the necessary evil that we should have ended long ago.

The Saudi government is terrified of the terrorists and terrorist supporters in their midst, but must play a careful game. They fear being deposed. Not defending them, but it's not as simple as you say.

The world is a very complex place, and these simple little solutions work great on paper, but don't always work out the way they sound on a bumper sticker.

Ask Obama. Remember, during the campaign we were going to be out of Iraq by now, and Gauntanamo was going to be closed.

 

[steveh_131]

I'm sure that a lot of terrorists are motivated solely by Islam to kill innocent people.

However, I think it's a little silly to pretend that our constant presence in the Middle East combined with our undying support for Israel isn't causing even more people to side with the terrorists. Of course Ben immediately pulls his version of the race card, essentially calling Ron Paul an anti-semite for making this simple observation.

I'm not saying that this means our actions there are wrong or that we should stop. But denying the existence of any consequences for these actions is foolish. They should be acknowledged and weighed in the decision-making process.

 

[Glock21]

Trying to sum this mess up in soundbites is not only impossible, but a mistake for anyone of any viewpoint to attempt. And that actually includes posts in threads like this.

Thousands of years of world history can not be summed up with something as simple as "They're crazy", or "Muhammad told them to do it." Nor can it be summed up with "We caused it" or "We are giving cause." All of those things might have a grain of truth, but much like trying to sum up WWII by saying "Hitler was crazy", it's not being honest.

All Muslims are not Jihadists - that's a fact. Personally, I have no use for the Muslim religion, and I find in it not a single redeeming quality. I also realize that regardless of intent, most of the time in world history might makes right and the majority gets it's way....just ask the American Indians. So, considering the rate at which people are converting to Muslim and emmigrating and having more Muslim children, vs. the negative birth rate the rest of us have, we are going to eventually have a fight on our hands no matter what - I have no answer about what to do with that, but it's an eventuality that is mathmatically certain.

I also don't for a second believe anything our government tells us. I don't, and I won't apologize for it. I've seen enough friends and family die of Agent Orange and Gulf War Syndrome, I've seen enough gun owners lives destroyed by the BATF, I've seen the IRS ruin enough small businesses, and I've heard enough BS spew from the mouths of every president and administration that has been in power since I could understand English, that they simply do not have anyone's best intrest at heart other than their own.

With this latest mess, I've seen huge graft and corruption from Haliberton, KBR and Blackwater, and we've managed to coat the entire Middle East with enough depleated uranium to cause an equal amount of deaths (so far) as Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined, as well as sending enough of it into the atmosphere that it's now being found in British farm fields. We've killed countless Iraqi citizens (some conservative estimates are over 100,000) and still not managed to get power and water restored even close to pre-war levels. So, if we didn't have a terrorist problem before the war, we do now. But I don't for one second believe that there is a terrorist around every corner just waiting to get us all. Pure propaganda! And the proof is in our open boarders. If the US government was so certain that a$$wads with suicide vests were at the gates, then our borders would have been sealed off on 9/12/01. It's over 8 years later and we haven't had a singe car bomb go off in this overly target rich environment we call the USA. Of course, the government would like us all to believe that it's because they've been doing such a steller job and have caught every person intent on doing us harm, but last weekends fiasco only proves to illustrate how inept they really are. And to top it off, they are now suggesting that the answer to the "security problem" is for you, your wife and your 9-year-old daughter be subjected to full body scans. In other words, they want to see all of us NAKED before we're "allowed" to travel from Chicago to LA. Sounds exactly like what the Bill of Rights had in mind, huh?

Too often these debates turn into some sort of flag waiving pro-military rants, and that, of course, makes those against current policy look like they are non-flag waiving and anti-military. I'm taking up neither side. I'm simply on a search for the truth, and I have yet to hear it from the mouths of anyone in charge. They keep telling me that the terrorists hate us for our freedoms, and then they say the only way to fight it is to take more of my freedoms away from me. They mess up, and then suggest that more funding and bigger government is the answer, not firing or jailing those who screwed up. They keep suggesting that the only way to find a 6'5" Arab hooked up to a dialysis machine is to send an addition 40,000 troops to Afghanistan. And they keep trying to tell me that the CIA isn't involved in the drug trade, yet the poppy harvests in Afghanistan have been at record highs since we've been there.

Folks, the same government that set a church on fire and lied about it are the same ones telling you we need to airstike Yemen. Biden was the guy at the end of the Waco hearings who said "This commission finds no wrong doing of any government agent...", and I'm supposed to believe anything they have to say about my personal security? I think not.

But, all that aside, I'm not sure if anyone else has noticed, but...WE'RE BROKE! We simply can't afford to fight overseas anymore. The dollar is tanking and our debt is gowing beyond anything we can ever hope to pay back. So, perhaps we should start considering a new plan. One which won't leave our military stranded because we can't pay the fuel bills to get them home, and one that doesn't leave our borders wide open, and one that doesn't include the TSA looking at our kids naked.

 

[turnandshoot4]

Holy amazing post batman. I'm out of rep.

 

[steveh_131]

That Glock21 fellow is one smart dude.

 

[Phil502]

People talk about occupation like we are the Nazi's, now that was an occupation. Our presence in the middle east is not equal to a real occupation and should not be labeled as one.

Glock21 is right on with the battle to come with the Muslims/Islam, in my opinion that is going to be the last great battle of western civilization. Truthfully if things remain like they are, meaning we play by certain PC rules and they don't ,we're beaten. If we keep taking blame for everything that happens and the young people in our country swallow that BS, it's going to be even faster. Radical Islam is not going away anytime soon, IMO.