Ron Paul Vietnam Message to Chickenhawks: "I went"

[chizzle]

I saw this exchange on the New Hampshire Republican primary last night, and I thought it was excellent:

http://youtu.be/jwTUlWZb8ns

While Newt tried to deflect the question about whether he avoided the draft (much like Mitt Romney), the take home point came from Ron when he said despite the same circumstances as Newt (wife and kids), he went. I find that very noble, and it shows that Ron has led by example.

For more info, feel free to check out more extended coverage here:

http://youtu.be/SvZ5D_fU39w

Even though I don't agree with Santorum's views, I've got to admit that Santorum had a good comeback about not being a Libertarian. I'm curious if it will paint him as a big government conservative though, which may be problematic in New Hampshire.

 

[HICKMAN]

saw that, he did lay the smack down.

 

[firehawk1]

Humm...... RP is against all these foreign wars we have been involved in yet he went, and while I don't actually know, might have killed people while there? Seems if he had stuck to his principals he should have claimed to be a conscientious objector, or protested the war.

Sounds a little hypocritical to me. Just throwing it out there for thought......

 

[mk2ja]

I loved that response. I didn't know that about Ron Paul, and boy did it ever get me even more excited to support him for President.

Here was my reaction on Twitter when it happened.

Link to tweet

 

[jsgolfman]

Humm...... RP is against all these foreign wars we have been involved in yet he went, and while I don't actually know, might have killed people while there? Seems if he had stuck to his principals he should have claimed to be a conscientious objector, or protested the war.

Sounds a little hypocritical to me. Just throwing it out there for thought......

Check the bold part. If you don't know, best to remain silent.

 

[chizzle]

Humm...... RP is against all these foreign wars we have been involved in yet he went, and while I don't actually know, might have killed people while there? Seems if he had stuck to his principals he should have claimed to be a conscientious objector, or protested the war.

Sounds a little hypocritical to me. Just throwing it out there for thought......

No offense taken, I can tell you're just trying to spur discussion. FYI, Ron Paul is a doctor by trade and was an active duty flight surgeon in the Air Force in the 60's. His official stance is that if a war is justified (actually defends our nation), specific, and officially declared, he would support it as commander and chief. On the other hand, he doesn't think we should be in 150+ countries policing the world, because he believes it is contrary to our Constitution and we are BROKE. Here is a great video explaining a little more.

http://youtu.be/XKfuS6gfxPY

 

[mk2ja]

Humm...... RP is against all these foreign wars we have been involved in yet he went, and while I don't actually know, might have killed people while there? Seems if he had stuck to his principals he should have claimed to be a conscientious objector, or protested the war.

Sounds a little hypocritical to me. Just throwing it out there for thought......

Well, as long as you're open to thinking, here are some facts to mix in with your food.

Ron Paul isn't a pacifist, nor is he against war altogether. He opposes wars that are started without a declaration of war by Congress as required by the Constitution. Check out his National Defense information page here:
National Defense | Ron Paul 2012 Presidential Campaign Committee

He was a flight surgeon. The Wikipedia page for flight surgeon does a nice job explaining what that is.

It is common for conscientious objectors to serve in the military and to request medical roles instead of combat roles. I understand Wikipedia is not an academic resource, but it does a nice job of explaining the concept under Religious Motives on its page about conscientious objectors.

So, since Dr. Paul served in a medical role in the USAF and ANG, it is extremely unlikely that he ever killed anybody (though, of course, I cannot say for sure). And while he may have completely disagreed with the war, he nevertheless served his country honorably when duty called.

You suggested he could have stuck to his principles. I argue that he did.

As a man who is 2 weeks away from reporting to training with the USMC, Ron Paul is the candidate I most want in the Oval Office because I know I can trust him to be responsible with my life (among so many other reasons).

 

[chizzle]

Here is a really funny video that shows who the main donors to the different candidates are:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27JyHafq27E

Ron's Top 3 donors are the US Air Force, Army, and Navy.

 

[eric001]

Thanks for the thread! I hope more of the sheeple actually LISTEN to what Paul has to say--as the clips showed, he has a pretty easy time nailing the other guys on what THEY say and how they vote as well.

 

[mk2ja]

Oh, hey, by the way, here are all the Ron Paul highlights from the debate last night.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvZ5D_fU39w

 

[KG1]

The question came up about a month ago in another thread about the extent of Ron Paul's military service. https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...l_nominee_dec_2011_edition-8.html#post2400858

I did a search at the time and could'nt come up with alot but did find some tidbits. From what I could gather it looks like he never left stateside and he was given a choice as far as the draft was concerned.

Here is the small amount of info that I was able to come up with and posted in the other thread.

Originally Posted by Zoub
For the record the term Flight Surgeon covers a lot of ground, they are not all doing surgery in the back of a C130 in a hurricane, although some could.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_surgeon

So how about someone tell me, what exactly did Paul do? Rather than toss the term around like he was near the front or flying around on Looking Glass with his finger on the button, which he was not.

The only thing I could come up with is some limited information from an article. In Third White House Bid, Paul's Message The Same | wusa9.com

Paul got a letter from the Selective Service. He could be drafted into the Army as a "buck private," or join as a physician and receive an officer's commission.

"I volunteered immediately," he says, chuckling

Paul served two years in the Air Force as a flight surgeon and three more in the Air National Guard. While he did not see any action, he says he's seen enough of war's aftermath to convince him "the way we go to war so often is the reason that we have difficulty getting out of war.

Paul had been stationed at Kelly Air Force Base in San Antonio. When his service was up in 1968, he stayed on in Texas, eventually taking over the practice of the only obstetrician-gynecologist in tiny Lake Jackson, south of Houston.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

As a Vietnam Era veteran, I'm long past the "draft dodger" arguments against anyone. In a high school graduation class of 900, I was in the top quarter. About 60 % of my friends never served at all. My best friend volunteered with me, hated it from Basic Training on, and got out as soon as he could. The "Chickenhawk" argument makes no issue to me unless a politician wants to claim "war hero" status while either not serving, or mischaracterizing his service.

When we start getting into politicians who weren't old enough to be drafted (and this may be the last Presidential Election Cycle where the issue may come up) maybe this whole damned "Chickenhawk" bull**** can be laid to rest.

Hooray for Ron Paul, he somehow avoided getting drafted long enough to finish medical school (did anyone pick up on that) and then chose to serve as an officer rather than a private (smart choice). Doesn't make him particularly patriotic or even very special in my eyes; it makes him pretty normal for our generation.

 

[jeremy]

Humm...... RP is against all these foreign wars we have been involved in yet he went, and while I don't actually know, might have killed people while there? Seems if he had stuck to his principals he should have claimed to be a conscientious objector, or protested the war.

Sounds a little hypocritical to me. Just throwing it out there for thought......

The Only persons Mr Paul would have killed were Our own Soldiers. He was a Flight Surgeon in the USAF...

 

[hornadylnl]

I've never understood the "--------- Era Veteran" status. Either you went or you didn't. I was in the National Guard until 03. Does that make me a 911, Iraq, and Afghanistan Era Veteran?

My dad graduated in 65 and joined the guard to get out of Nam. The funeral director asked if I wanted a military burial for him and I said no. For 1, I don't think he would have wanted it and 2, I felt it would be a disservice to those who actually went.

 

[HICKMAN]

Humm...... RP is against all these foreign wars we have been involved in yet he went, and while I don't actually know, might have killed people while there? Seems if he had stuck to his principals he should have claimed to be a conscientious objector, or protested the war.

Sounds a little hypocritical to me. Just throwing it out there for thought......

you might want to educate yourself on the good doctor... as he was a doctor with the Air Force.

Ron Paul supported going after Bin Laden. He was dead on with Iraq, as we have gained nothing from being there.

He said it a million times, he's not against war, he just wants the Constitution followed.

 

[HICKMAN]

The "Chickenhawk" argument makes no issue to me unless a politician wants to claim "war hero" status while either not serving, or mischaracterizing his service.

My father is also a Vietnam vet who enlisted, served 13 on active duty and another 12 in the Indiana National Guard. As he described the term, it's one who's all for "going to war" when they were eligible during wartime and didn't bother to serve in any capacity.

I think Ron Paul describes Mr "war history" Newt exactly as he sees it, one who doesn't have a problem sending kids off to fight when he wasn't willing to anything in the military when he could have.

As a Flight Surgeon... "Doctor" Paul was of more use to the military than he would have been as an airman.

 

[firehawk1]

you might want to educate yourself on the good doctor... as he was a doctor with the Air Force.

As I stated I "didn't actually know".

Ron Paul supported going after Bin Laden. He was dead on with Iraq, as we have gained nothing from being there.

A little arm chair quarterbacking there. How many time have people said the exact same thing about current events at the time, only to be proven wrong historically.

He said it a million times, he's not against war, he just wants the Constitution followed.

It wasn't followed as far as Vietnam was concerned. Don't recall any declaration of war toward Vietnam.

My only point is he did something in direct contradiction of his stated positions.

Again,

 

[jeremy]

It wasn't followed as far as Vietnam was concerned. Don't recall any declaration of war toward Vietnam.

That would be the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, officially called the Asia Resolution Public Law 88-408.

It was authored in response to the Gulf of Tonkin Incident...


Senate Votes 88-2
House of Representative Votes 416-0

Sounds to me like the Congress Approved of the Vietnam War....

 

[firehawk1]

Congress approved the use of military force in Iraq too didn't they?

Does Congressional approval equate to a formal Declaration of War?

 

[Sabreur]

Awesome! Thanks for sharing!