Ron Paul: Words Mean Things

[NavyVet]

I have resisted the temptation to jump back in here because of the emotional hotbed this can/has become.

I believe aborting a fetus is the stopping of a heartbeat, and therefore the taking of a life. Even though our government has decided that the act is acceptable and legal, does not mean everyone believes that.

Someone mentioned earlier that you had the option of 'voting with your feet'. When the government takes your money in taxes and diverts them into questionable areas, it makes me an accomplice to what I believe is the taking of an innocent life.

I do not denying that you as a citizen of the US under our constitution can make the decision to abort. As with anything, you take the responsibility to live with the consequences (and absorb the costs associated with it). Don't expect me to pay for it.

Equating the abortion issue with the actions of war are disingenuous. Killing of the unborn is simply continuing the slippery slope of creating a society that no longer is required to think about the results of their actions. Do what you want, the outcome is irrelevant, because you can either kill it or the government (we the people) will pay for it.

If people knew without a doubt, that they would have to live with the consequences of their actions, their would be a lot less stupid decisions made.

We beat situational awareness to death on INGO for obvious reasons. Why wouldn't you use a similar thought process when dealing with other issues. Why? Because if you do something stupid with a handgun and hurt another, you WILL be held accountable and none of us want that. Other decisions, there seems to be no accountability required.

Ultimately, keep the government out of businesses they don't belong in (which is most of them). They usually mess them up....

 

[Blackhawk2001]

It's not murder even if you feel like it is. Even if you keep repeating: murder, murder, MURDER, MURDER! Murder is what a law says it is. A five time DUI loser can be a murderer after, what? 3-4 deadly accidents?

A guy's feelings can't be measured against what the woman is going through. You will never know what it is like be a woman and young person has no idea what it is like to be old.

If it makes anyone feel better, many women carry that abortion **** around for the rest of their lives. Emotionally I'm sure you're all man enough to handle it.
Some of the "high and mighties" will be glad to know that they suffer plenty for aborting the fetus. And they would suffer just as much having the fetus come to maturity and forced to give birth to it.

And if the government forced them to birth their fathers child? A rapists child? A terminally ill child? on and on.

So, in your view "murder" is just a word with the act having no particular moral effect on the community in which it happens?

Do you think that legalizing the killing of another person who is innocent of any wrongdoing is justified because it's inconvenient to another person? Does society gain anything by encouraging the termination of a subset of its members, especially when it justifies such termination through a process of de-humanization?

What moral right to survival does a society have when it advocates termination of its weakest, most helpless members?

Have we already had this discussion of "personhood" before as a nation and as society? What was our conclusion?

If terminating a mother and her unborn child becomes two crimes, why is terminating the unborn child not a crime?

 

[Paco Bedejo]

Does society gain anything by encouraging the termination of a subset of its members, especially when it justifies such termination through a process of de-humanization?

Wait...are we talking about babies or forei...erm...terr'ists?

 

[foszoe]

Words don't mean one thing, they mean any one of a number of things as defined in dictionary.com. If you don't like what a word does mean, create a movement change the definitino in dictionary.com and you are good to go!

I learned that here in other threads.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

Wait...are we talking about babies or forei...erm...terr'ists?

Consider the context of the rest of the post and the words "innocent of wrongdoing."

 

[Paco Bedejo]

Consider the context of the rest of the post and the words "innocent of wrongdoing."

I was making jest of the fact that many on this forum consider all in a certain region to be terrorists, rather than innocent people living their lives. Many of the people in this conversation have shown in other threads that they're perfectly content murdering innocents "over there" but want unenforceable anti-abortion laws at the federal level, here. It's morally & intellectually inconsistent.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

I was making jest of the fact that many on this forum consider all in a certain region to be terrorists, rather than innocent people living their lives. Many of the people in this conversation have shown in other threads that they're perfectly content murdering innocents "over there" but want unenforceable anti-abortion laws at the federal level, here. It's morally & intellectually inconsistent.

I'd settle for recognizing once again that abortion IS murder and returning to the moral stigma attached to killing an innocent unborn.

 

[Paco Bedejo]

I'd settle for recognizing once again that abortion IS murder and returning to the moral stigma attached to killing an innocent unborn.

So, basically, you want people to feel bad. Am I reading you right? You do not want to do anything to make an enforceable law to punish those involved in abortions...you just want them to suffer guilt via moral stigma?

 

[Zoub]

I think it is a State level issue, not Federal. I do not want the Govt. paying for them and I think each State can decide for itself what to do with this knowledge/process/technology. Citizens can vote with their feet and move away from or into the States that best represent their needs.

No matter what anyone or any Government does, abortion is never, ever going away. Knowledge never does.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

So, basically, you want people to feel bad. Am I reading you right? You do not want to do anything to make an enforceable law to punish those involved in abortions...you just want them to suffer guilt via moral stigma?

Maybe if there were more pangs of moral stigmas amongst us, we wouldn't need more near un-enforceable laws.

 

[Zoub]

Maybe if there were more pangs of moral stigmas amongst us, we wouldn't need more near un-enforceable laws.

For me it is about this, separation of church and state.

Another example, telling Catholics they have to pay for another persons birth control. Why does the Federal Govt. even think it can do that?

If we get back to a true separation of church and state we make these issues local, not Federal. Hitler is a good reminder of what Govt, genetics and birth control combined leads us to. For that matter, so is modern day China.

 

[IndyDave1776]

For me it is about this, separation of church and state.

Another example, telling Catholics they have to pay for another persons birth control. Why does the Federal Govt. even think it can do that?

If we get back to a true separation of church and state we make these issues local, not Federal. Hitler is a good reminder of what Govt, genetics and birth control combined leads us to. For that matter, so is modern day China.

Sounds reasonable to me--sort out the difference between Constitutional separation of church and state and the steamrolling of the church by the state.

 

[LEaSH]

It's absolutely reasonable to me, too.

Don't fund abortions with tax money, and don't force private owned hospitals to change there rules of not performing abortions.

Keep religion out of government and all it involves. And keep government out of religion and how they operate.