Rough Revolver Cylinder Notches

[Bosshoss]

The ones I have where the bolt drops early and comes up early, it's easy to over travel the trigger because I have to put more force on it mid pull to overcome the drag.

Drag? there is a tiny spring holding the cylinder stop up it is undetectable hitting on the cylinder.
Again I don't stage the trigger and none of my customers or fellow competitors stage the trigger.
If you are trying to stage the trigger and having trouble you need more practice. That is why no one does it because it is inconsistent.

 

[Bosshoss]

I've noticed on the newer revolvers, the bolt snaps back up like it's being spring released. On the older revolvers, it goes down and comes back up at the same rate. I just realized this is apples and oranges.

If the newer revolvers are released like the first example, I'm confused why they're known to suffer from late lockup, because the bolt would be riding the cylinder.

The basic operation of S&W revolvers has not changed in over 100 years.

The cylinder stop(not called the bolt) has nothing to do with the timing of the revolver.
The newer revolvers have no more tendencies to timing issues than the early ones.

 

[Sigblitz]

The basic operation of S&W revolvers has not changed in over 100 years.

The cylinder stop(not called the bolt) has nothing to do with the timing of the revolver.
The newer revolvers have no more tendencies to timing issues than the early ones.

I learn something new almost every day.

 

[Sigblitz]

Link to images below. Can anyone tell me what would cause the notches in this cylinder to be rough/jagged like this? What should I do with it? It seems to lock up tight and everything operates smoothly. It just doesn't look right.

https://hidrive.ionos.com/share/orpdz05304

I've noticed on the newer revolvers, the bolt snaps back up like it's being spring released. On the older revolvers, it goes down and comes back up at the same rate. I just realized this is apples and oranges.

If the newer revolvers are released like the first example, I'm confused why they're known to suffer from late lockup, because the bolt would be riding the cylinder.

Ok I figured it out. I knew I'd learn something today.
I suspect your revolver suffers from late lockup. I have older Smiths where the bolt, or stop, or bolt stop, doesn't spring back up, but raises up at the start of the scallop to engage the notch. Someone can argue this, but I pulled some out of the collection and watched it with my own eyes. But yours is not an older one and doesn't have to be timed just exactly right.
The bolt on the newer Smiths springs back up after it's clear of the notch and rides the cylinder. So it's sure to lock, so what is this late lockup that I hear some of the new ones suffer from? What it is, If the lockup is late, the bolt will come out of the notch late and bang up the side of the notch.
The timing is a little off, but it doesn't affect firing as it would on the older Smiths.

 

[Sigblitz]

Even if Smith finds this acceptable, I would try to get them to fix it if this is a new gun.

 

[Salty]

As I said, it was manufactured over 20 years ago. I just bought this last week and it looks like the S&W warranty is not transferable. Most of my revolvers are Rugers and they don't have this issue. From what I have read this is common in S&W. I guess I deal with it or buy a new cylinder. Midwest sells them for about $120.

 

[Bosshoss]

Ok I figured it out. I knew I'd learn something today.
I suspect your revolver suffers from late lockup. I have older Smiths where the bolt, or stop, or bolt stop, doesn't spring back up, but raises up at the start of the scallop to engage the notch. Someone can argue this, but I pulled some out of the collection and watched it with my own eyes. But yours is not an older one and doesn't have to be timed just exactly right.
The bolt on the newer Smiths springs back up after it's clear of the notch and rides the cylinder. So it's sure to lock, so what is this late lockup that I hear some of the new ones suffer from? What it is, If the lockup is late, the bolt will come out of the notch late and bang up the side of the notch.
The timing is a little off, but it doesn't affect firing as it would on the older Smiths.

I don't know how old your guns are but I have worked on a few that were made in the teens(1917 actually) and they work same as current guns. I don't work on guns older than that because no parts are not available so I can't speak about them.
I already explained before what is causing this and it has nothing to do with timing.

 

[Bosshoss]

As I said, it was manufactured over 20 years ago. I just bought this last week and it looks like the S&W warranty is not transferable. Most of my revolvers are Rugers and they don't have this issue. From what I have read this is common in S&W. I guess I deal with it or buy a new cylinder. Midwest sells them for about $120.

Actually I have seen this on Rugers and Colts also. It is not just a S&W thing.
Call S&W and see what they say. It can't hurt but if it is working as designed I doubt they will do anything.

 

[trebor]

 

[Salty]

I ended up ordering a new cylinder and replaced it. Then the hammer would not cock for single action and the trigger would not go back far enough to fire in double action. I thought maybe I had got something inside while cleaning that was jamming it so I took it completely apart and put it back together (thanks YouTube) and it still had the same problem. I got to thinking about it and it was like the cylinder was locking in place but the part that turns it was too long so it was keeping the trigger from going all the way back. So, I compared the new extractor to the old one. See new picture in the link.

https://hidrive.ionos.com/share/orpdz05304

The old one (bottom) is oblonged where the lever pushes to turn the cylinder. I swapped the ejectors so I have a new cylinder with the old ejector. It seems to work perfectly. Should I be worried about this? Do I need to take it to a gunsmith and have it "timed"?

 

[Leadeye]

While I can't speak for modern S&W, it sounds like you have a fitting problem like I get sometimes replacing cylinders on an old Colt. The hand is just a little too long to let the hammer lock back and since this connects with the trigger on a DA it doesn't want to go back far enough either. I have to fit the hand to the new cylinder by filing a small amount of it off.

CAREFULLY

 

[Bosshoss]

I ended up ordering a new cylinder and replaced it. Then the hammer would not cock for single action and the trigger would not go back far enough to fire in double action. I thought maybe I had got something inside while cleaning that was jamming it so I took it completely apart and put it back together (thanks YouTube) and it still had the same problem. I got to thinking about it and it was like the cylinder was locking in place but the part that turns it was too long so it was keeping the trigger from going all the way back. So, I compared the new extractor to the old one. See new picture in the link.

https://hidrive.ionos.com/share/orpdz05304

The old one (bottom) is oblonged where the lever pushes to turn the cylinder. I swapped the ejectors so I have a new cylinder with the old ejector. It seems to work perfectly. Should I be worried about this? Do I need to take it to a gunsmith and have it "timed"?

A new cylinder comes with a new extractor which is oversized and has to be fitted to the revolver. As you figured out if you have the old extractor it MIGHT work.
You need to make sure it times correct.
A cylinder is not a drop in part unless you get reallllly lucky.
You need to check the cylinder for endshake or more likely a lack of clearance. A majority of the cylinders I have fit(new ones at least) need clearance added at the yoke.
Endshake can be checked by trying to move the cylinder front to back when it is closed. You can measure this with feeler gauges between the back of the barrel(forcing cone) and the front of the cylinder. If it has play measure with the cylinder back and then with it held forward and the difference is your endplay.
If it has no front to back movement it may be to tight.
To check this make sure the gun is empty and close cylinder. Pull hammer back with your thumb about a third of the way. This will unlock the cylinder. Now try to spin the cylinder in the gun counter clockwise like it turns when firing. It should spin anywhere from half a turn to several turns. If it won't spin easily or has a lot of drag it is too tight and needs some clearance added.
Good luck.

 

[Salty]

A new cylinder comes with a new extractor which is oversized and has to be fitted to the revolver. As you figured out if you have the old extractor it MIGHT work.
You need to make sure it times correct.
A cylinder is not a drop in part unless you get reallllly lucky.
You need to check the cylinder for endshake or more likely a lack of clearance. A majority of the cylinders I have fit(new ones at least) need clearance added at the yoke.
Endshake can be checked by trying to move the cylinder front to back when it is closed. You can measure this with feeler gauges between the back of the barrel(forcing cone) and the front of the cylinder. If it has play measure with the cylinder back and then with it held forward and the difference is your endplay.
If it has no front to back movement it may be to tight.
To check this make sure the gun is empty and close cylinder. Pull hammer back with your thumb about a third of the way. This will unlock the cylinder. Now try to spin the cylinder in the gun counter clockwise like it turns when firing. It should spin anywhere from half a turn to several turns. If it won't spin easily or has a lot of drag it is too tight and needs some clearance added.
Good luck.

I think I got lucky then. There is a slight amount of end play but I've seen worse. I was able to spin it with the trigger back far enough for the cylinder stop to be out of the way. The lever that turns the cylinder clicks as I spin it but otherwise it spins easily. Cylinder locks tighter than some I've seen and lines up with the barrel. Thanks for your input.