S.2213 The No-Compromise Reciprocity Bill

[Wwwildthing]

The Thune-Vitter bill provides national recognition for concealed carry permit holders (who have obtained one from their home states), but it also recognizes the right to carry for residents of Constitutional Carry states (where no permit is required).

Background - Senators Thune and Vitter Introduce Reciprocity Bill with more than 25 Co-Sponsors @ USA Carry

Write Your Senator - Take-Action

Text of the Bill - Bill Text - 112th Congress (2011-2012) - THOMAS (Library of Congress)

 

[jgreiner]

The Thune-Vitter bill provides national recognition for concealed carry permit holders (who have obtained one from their home states), but it also recognizes the right to carry for residents of Constitutional Carry states (where no permit is required).

Background - Senators Thune and Vitter Introduce Reciprocity Bill with more than 25 Co-Sponsors @ USA Carry

Write Your Senator - Take-Action

That is an improvement, but it's STILL weak compared to the HOUSE bill. This bill would still prevent us from carrying in IL. Which sucks.

 

[Stschil]

If they want "True Reciprocity" why don't they introduce a bill that simply states

"Whereas the Constitution of the United States is considered to be the highest law in the land, be it recognized that ALL STATES ARE BOUND TO UPHOLD IT and make no law that would diminish it."

"Whereas, the 2nd Amendment, being included in the Bill of Rights to the Constitution, as approved and ratified by the required number of States, it should be further recognized that the neither the Federal nor State governments have the authority to modify it by placing any infringements, no matter how small, on the natural right to keep and bear arms of the Citizens of our Nation."

 

[KG1]

If they want "True Reciprocity" why don't they introduce a bill that simply states

"Whereas the Constitution of the United States is considered to be the highest law in the land, be it recognized that ALL STATES ARE BOUND TO UPHOLD IT and make no law that would diminish it."

"Whereas, the 2nd Amendment, being included in the Bill of Rights to the Constitution, as approved and ratified by the required number of States, it should be further recognized that the neither the Federal nor State governments have the authority to modify it by placing any infringements, no matter how small, on the natural right to keep and bear arms of the Citizens of our Nation."

I like your version the best.

 

[Bill of Rights]

While Sens Thune and Vitter both have good histories in re: the 2A, I will withhold my thoughts on this pending reading the text of the legislation. (It's not posted at this writing) On first blush, I still object to the "concealed" language, but recognize that it may be merely a reference to the type of permit, not to a method of carry.

Time (and the language of the bill) will tell.

Edit:
The language was posted between when I looked earlier and now:

112th CONGRESS 2d Session S. 2213 To allow reciprocity for the carrying of certain concealed firearms.
IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES March 20, 2012

Mr. THUNE (for himself, Mr. VITTER, Mr. BARRASSO, Mr. BOOZMAN, Mr. BURR, Mr. CHAMBLISS, Mr. COBURN, Mr. CORNYN, Mr. CRAPO, Mr. DEMINT, Mr. ENZI, Mr. GRASSLEY, Mr. INHOFE, Mr. ISAKSON, Mr. JOHNSON of Wisconsin, Mr. MCCONNELL, Mr. PAUL, Mr. PORTMAN, Mr. RISCH, Mr. RUBIO, Mr. SESSIONS, Mr. TOOMEY, Mr. WICKER, Mr. COCHRAN, Mr. HATCH, Mr. LUGAR, Mr. GRAHAM, Ms. AYOTTE, and Mr. LEE) introduced the following bill; which was read twice and referred to the Committee on the Judiciary
A BILL To allow reciprocity for the carrying of certain concealed firearms.

• Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

• This Act may be cited as the `Respecting States' Rights and Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act of 2012'.

SEC. 2. RECIPROCITY FOR THE CARRYING OF CERTAIN CONCEALED FIREARMS.

• (a) In General- Chapter 44 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by inserting after section 926C the following:

`Sec. 926D. Reciprocity for the carrying of certain concealed firearms

• `(a) In General- Notwithstanding any provision of the law of any State or political subdivision thereof to the contrary--

• • `(1) an individual who is not prohibited by Federal law from possessing, transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm, and who is carrying a government-issued photographic identification document and a valid license or permit which is issued pursuant to the law of a State and which permits the individual to carry a concealed firearm, may possess or carry a concealed handgun (other than a machinegun or destructive device) that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce in any State other than the State of residence of the individual that--

• • • `(A) has a statue that allows residents of the State to obtain licenses or permits to carry concealed firearms; or

• • • `(B) does not prohibit the carrying of concealed firearms by residents of the State for lawful purposes; and

• • `(2) an individual who is not prohibited by Federal law from possessing, transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm, and who is carrying a government-issued photographic identification document and is entitled and not prohibited from carrying a concealed firearm in the State in which the individual resides otherwise than as described in paragraph (1), may possess or carry a concealed handgun (other than a machinegun or destructive device) that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce in any State other than the State of residence of the individual that--

• • • `(A) has a statute that allows residents of the State to obtain licenses or permits to carry concealed firearms; or

• • • `(B) does not prohibit the carrying of concealed firearms by residents of the State for lawful purposes.

• `(b) Conditions and Limitations- The possession or carrying of a concealed handgun in a State under this section shall be subject to the same conditions and limitations, except as to eligibility to possess or carry, imposed by or under Federal or State law or the law of a political subdivision of a State, that apply to the possession or carrying of a concealed handgun by residents of the State or political subdivision who are licensed by the State or political subdivision to do so, or not prohibited by the State from doing so.

• `(c) Unrestricted License or Permit- In a State that allows the issuing authority for licenses or permits to carry concealed firearms to impose restrictions on the carrying of firearms by individual holders of such licenses or permits, an individual carrying a concealed handgun under this section shall be permitted to carry a concealed handgun according to the same terms authorized by an unrestricted license of or permit issued to a resident of the State.

• `(d) Rule of Construction- Nothing in this section shall be construed to preempt any provision of State law with respect to the issuance of licenses or permits to carry concealed firearms.'.

• (b) Clerical Amendment- The table of sections for chapter 44 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by inserting after the item relating to section 926C the following:

• • `926D. Reciprocity for the carrying of certain concealed firearms.'.

• (c) Severability- Notwithstanding any other provision of this Act, if any provision of this section, or any amendment made by this section, or the application of such provision or amendment to any person or circumstance is held to be unconstitutional, this section and amendments made by this section and the application of such provision or amendment to other persons or circumstances shall not be affected thereby.

• (d) Effective Date- The amendments made by this section shall take effect 90 days after the date of enactment of this Act.

It doesn't recognize your right to carry in your own state. That is, if you live in CA and can't get a permit there but have an AZ permit, you can carry in any state other than IL and CA, the latter being where you live. It also still calls for concealed-only and still requires a state-issued permission slip except in Constitutional Carry states. It also, however, demands that if you may carry in, say, MA, you are seen as having an unrestricted license there. On balance, while this is still not ideal, it's a little bit better bill.

And hey, lookie there! Little Dick Lugar signed on as a sponsor! Must be an election year (and he knows as well that it won't pass and be signed into law)
End edit.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[HICKMAN]

why does anyone think this is a good idea?

and why are they doing this while Obama is in office?

 

[Bill of Rights]

why does anyone think this is a good idea?

and why are they doing this while Obama is in office?

1) Because it's easier to go for Federal legislation than to push 46 more states to go Constitutional Carry, especially when some of them have residents that LIKE the idea of more regulation, such as the anti-freedom advocates in NY state and CA, for example. When you have an electorate that consistently chooses people like Schumer, McCarthy, Pelosi, Boxer, and Feinstein despite their clear and unwavering hatred of our Constitution and the regular and repeated violations of that document they perpetrate, what kind of pro-2A reforms can you expect in those places?

2) In Thune and Vitter's case, I'd say they're not so much doing this while Obama is in office as doing it because it's their view that it needs done, and they couldn't care less who's in office.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[ATM]

Of course, there's everyone's favorite rented mule, the authority catch-all Commerce Clause justification:

...that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce...

So... if I buy a gun that was manufactured in my home state, it would still be illegal to carry it in another state that didn't already recognize my license until I make a purchase in that state? What a fantastic and logical sense of authority our Congress thinks they wield.

I like the idea of a supreme law protecting our rights from infringement. Maybe an amendment to make sure the states know it applies to them as well.
Perhaps new laws which they could also ignore should be passed every few years, too, since they tend to forget about such enenforced trivia.

 

[Liberty Sanders]

And Lugar signed on to it. If this isn't proof positive that he's terrified of losing his seat I don't know what is.

 

[Bill of Rights]

And Lugar signed on to it. If this isn't proof positive that he's terrified of losing his seat I don't know what is.

Nah. He knows full well that it won't be heard by Reid and even if it is, Barry Hussein won't sign it.

This is nothing more than "political cover". (which is not to say he's not terrified, only that this doesn't prove it... the three mailings I've gotten from him to the effect that "Richard Mourdock is absent from work 66% of the time" is more proof of that.)

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Wwwildthing]

I don't give a rat's a** about Dick Lugar or that Illinois still won't be a carry state (they'll have to fix that problem on their own, without Federal interference).

I do care about National (Concealed Carry) Reciprocity (since that is the ONLY kind of reciprocity that EVERYONE will support - ever hear of a Open Carry permit? - me either), especially for citizens of Constitutional Carry states.

If this does pass, and there's a good chance it will... I'll be able to carry in any state that has a permit, on my (Arizona) Driver's License alone.

As Yoda might say... "Sorry your state sucks... I am not".

 

[Stschil]

Nah. He knows full well that it won't be heard by Reid and even if it is, Barry Hussein won't sign it.

This is nothing more than "political cover". (which is not to say he's not terrified, only that this doesn't prove it... the three mailings I've gotten from him to the effect that "Richard Mourdock is absent from work 66% of the time" is more proof of that.)

Blessings,
Bill

I wonder what percentage of time Little Dicky has been Absent From The State he represents?

 

[quicksdraw]

Y'all are talking about THE DICK signing on as a co-sponsor, but did any of you notice that Danny "I learned my lesson" Coats' name was nowhere in evidence?

 

[Bill of Rights]

I'm OK with that. Not signing as a sponsor doesn't mean he's against it, just that he's not signed on in favor.

Additionally, if I was in Congress and a bill like this came along, I'd not sign onto it either. Would you call me anti-gun?

That's not really a fair comparison, because I'd have introduced a better bill, one along the lines of what stschil posted upthread (post #3.)

Blessings,
Bill

 

[quicksdraw]

I'm OK with that. Not signing as a sponsor doesn't mean he's against it, just that he's not signed on in favor.

Additionally, if I was in Congress and a bill like this came along, I'd not sign onto it either. Would you call me anti-gun?

That's not really a fair comparison, because I'd have introduced a better bill, one along the lines of what stschil posted upthread (post #3.)

Blessings,
Bill

If you had the anti-gun history Danny has, you bet I'd call you anti-gun for not signing on.

 

[Bill of Rights]

If you had the anti-gun history Danny has, you bet I'd call you anti-gun for not signing on.

Well, I WAS once a liberal who voted for Clinton, not once but twice. I do have the inexperience of youth in my defense, however, and if you did call me that any time after I saw my errors, you would be wrong. (and just to get it out of the way, I'm not only in favor of certain people carrying, either.)

I'm just saying that the fact he hasn't signed doesn't mean he's anti-gun still. Sure, he might be. I recognize that possibility, and I don't depend on him to be the swing vote in our favor, but I also don't deny that he could have had his eyes opened just as I did. He's a political creature and he wants to be in office. It's our job to show him that the way to stay there is to be in our favor and conversely, the way out of office begins with a vote against us.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[rgrimm01]

It seems to me that if the Feds are truly interested in "allowing" all citizens to carry in any state they happen to find themselves regardless of residency, they could employ the same tactic they used on implementing the speedlimit. The states did not have to lower the speed limit to 55,but if they wanted money from the Fed, they will. I wonder if the national carry bill passes, if Illinois would soon be pressured to grant handgun carry to it's residents. Who could imagine not being able to drive through Illinois because Illinois does not grant licenses to drive vehicles?

 

[ATM]

...they could employ the same tactic they used on implementing the speedlimit. The states did not have to lower the speed limit to 55,but if they wanted money from the Fed, they will...

I think they learned their lesson when those mandates and susequent funding threats backfired on them and several states, ever so briefly, managed to knock them down a couple notches.

 

[Ted]

And Lugar signed on to it. If this isn't proof positive that he's terrified of losing his seat I don't know what is.

Not so fast. He's already withdrawn his co sponsorship.

 

[quicksdraw]

Well, I WAS once a liberal who voted for Clinton, not once but twice. I do have the inexperience of youth in my defense, however, and if you did call me that any time after I saw my errors, you would be wrong. (and just to get it out of the way, I'm not only in favor of certain people carrying, either.)

I'm just saying that the fact he hasn't signed doesn't mean he's anti-gun still. Sure, he might be. I recognize that possibility, and I don't depend on him to be the swing vote in our favor, but I also don't deny that he could have had his eyes opened just as I did. He's a political creature and he wants to be in office. It's our job to show him that the way to stay there is to be in our favor and conversely, the way out of office begins with a vote against us.

Blessings,
Bill

I don't hold your liberal past against you. Hell, when I was young and stupid I not only voted for McGovern, I also campaigned for him. In my defense, there was a young lady with whom I was smitten that was leading me around by the...uh... well, let's just say she was leading me around.
Danny boy, however, ran for senate in '88 as a conservative, then sold us out when Willy the weasel's AWB came up. That is why so many of us don't trust the turncoat now.