S&W model 442 accuracy questions

[Brown]

Hi. I went shooting with a neighbor today and she just purchased a S&W 442 in 38 special. it has a internal hammer and a 1-7/8" barrel. She shot initially and could not hit anything at all. I tried and with the target only 15' away aiming at center mass all 5 shots were 10-12 inches high.I am a fairly seasoned shooter so don't believe it is either of us causing.

I realize this is a short barrel but the accuray is WAY off.Anyone have opinions or input? She bought it for concealed carry and protection but with the accuracy I saw I would amost be afraid to fire it except at the barn side.

 

[melensdad]

Were the groups fairly tight but just high by 10 to 12 inches?

Or where they high and all over the target?

 

[LPMan59]

i have the 642 and when i shoot it, its ALL over the place. i blame the barrell and my noobness. i kinda gave up on it because its just not fun to shoot.

then again, if i had to use my snubbie, it would likely be at very short range anyways. i left it to my wife because she can actually shoot it and hit the paper with all five shots in the same general area.

 

[IndyGunworks]

9 times out of ten with the snubbies its the shooter and not the gun.... move the target closer like 5 feet and practice and only move it back when you are comforitable with your hits at the range you are shooting... move it slow... i am no expert but these guns have a much higher learning curve and can even though a serious shooter for a loop if they have never fired them.

 

[6guns]

I can be fairly accurate with my 642 and in general I think S&W's are very good guns. I'd say it's just a matter of getting used to the gun, it's small grip and off course the pretty stiff trigger pull.

 

[Brown]

The groupings were 10-12 inches high and all over the place.Out of 5 shots the closest two together were 3"+ spacing. I have a SP101 hammerles in 357 and a what 2" barrel I think. I can shoot it pretty well out to say 25'+. We only tried one brand of ammo in the S&W so next time we go will take a couple of other brands,move the target in closer,and get her comfortable with the accuracy there and then move it back a little at a time. I do like the trigger pull on the S&W VS the SP101. It is a lot lighter pull.

 

[sporter]

9 times out of ten with the snubbies its the shooter and not the gun.... move the target closer like 5 feet and practice and only move it back when you are comforitable with your hits at the range you are shooting... move it slow... i am no expert but these guns have a much higher learning curve and can even though a serious shooter for a loop if they have never fired them.

Exactly. It is the shooter.

My 442 is dead nuts accurate. The key is a steady hand and trigger finger while holding while keeping the gun somewhat stable during recoil.
If the gun is allowed to recoil violently or loosely it will shoot way high.


Here is a little example of 442 @ 10 yards.

 

[techres]

I have owned both and carry a 642 and yes, it is a bear to shoot accurately. Mostly it is the heavy trigger pull + the fact that most shooters has to cock out their finger to keep the same portion of the finger on the trigger all the way back. It is simply a hard motion on a hard trigger all the while waiting for some hard recoil that adds in serious flinch.

I.E. they are hard to shoot well.

Go light on the ammo, start close and move back, and if you can - dry fire with a set of laser grips. The laser won't lie to you and the dance on the wall will prove that the wobble is you.

 

[dice dealer]

I was shocked at how well i can hit with my 442

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

I agree with the above posters... It's more than likely due to the stiff and long trigger. Also, one can begin to really "flinch" upon anticipation of the recoil from one of those little revolvers, too.

All in all, I don't think that an airweight J-frame makes for a good "lady gun" due to the trigger pull and recoil.

Heck, for that matter, it's not a good beginner gun for anyone, IMO.

-J-

 

[sloughfoot]

You didn't say what bullet weight. 158's will shoot high and 125's will probably be closer to POA at your distance with a J frame S&W. +P loads of any weight will induce flinching and will not be pleasant for your new shooter.

If you have access to good old 148 double wad cutter target loads, they will be accurate and close to POA also. For practice and familiarization, it is probably the best load for a lightweight snubby.

Try to treat the trigger as a two stage military rifle trigger. Squeeze it back until you feel that second stage, (the finger tip will be touching the frame on the other side) then make sure the sights are aligned before you squeeze off that last little bit and it goes bang. Don't use the finger tip on the trigger for this exercise, use the first joint, or as much as you need. Touching the frame with the finger tip creates kind of a leverage point. Lots of dry firing will ingrain the concept.

The fast, close up combat work with the snubby becomes easy after mastering the trigger.

BTW, I love my 442 and 642 and either one will ring the gong at 100 yards using the first joint to control the trigger. For the fast and dirty closeup stuff, the trigger more or less gets yanked, under control. Hard to describe....But it works for me and others I have taught over the years.

Sorry if I sound preachy, but I fear the art of the revolver is being lost with all these plastic pistols and such. (I love them too)

Don't give up on the little revolver. It has plenty of attributes.

 

[m_deaner]

Great post sloughfoot! The only thing I would add is that, if the trigger pull is too heavy for you, buy reduced power springs from wolf:
Resources\Ordering
(look for the "shooters pak" @$9)

 

[Dryden]

Both Mine and my wife's 642s shoot accurately at 20- 25 feet. Both revolvers have the Crimson Trace 305 grips ( longer and backstrap cushioned.). Even without the laser, we can put a nice group using 125gr.FMJ rounds. We practice about twice a month.

 

[Bubbajms]

The little snubnose is one of the firearms where I think a laser really comes in handy, if nothing else for training purposes..

 

[Bisley Man]

As usual, everything I would say has been said.Laser grips, dryfire,wadcutter target ammo, very close range practice at first, all very good advise. Only thing I could think of, if the lady is carrying in a gun purse,or other carry that doesn't require the smallest size,the grip doesn't have to be as small. Get a larger grip if that's the case. The larger size that allows all the fingers to hold the entire grip helps to reduce the felt recoil.

 

[Claddagh]

IMO, a small frame snubby revolver is about the most difficult of all firearms to master, and a featherweight DAO is probably the toughest of those.

I'd second the suggestion to use very mild 148 gr. WC target loads until the basics of proper trigger control and sight alignment have been established.

If this was purchased as a first firearm by a complete novice on the advice of someone they knew, that person didn't do them any favor, IMO. The only suggestion I'd offer that I think might help salvage the situation would be to get them into an intro-level training course with an extremely knowledgable and experienced professional instructor running it.

 

[Dogman]

9 times out of ten with the snubbies its the shooter and not the gun.... move the target closer like 5 feet and practice and only move it back when you are comforitable with your hits at the range you are shooting... move it slow... i am no expert but these guns have a much higher learning curve and can even though a serious shooter for a loop if they have never fired them.

, it took me months of practice before I felt comfortable carrying my 342 as a backup on duty. JMO don't have the target farther than 15 yards.

 

[longbarrel]

I think the airweights have something like a ten pound trigger pull??? I have one, and have had a few. In my experience, I shot much more accurately with a hammered model(637). I know it was probably all in my head, but it just seemed to be better for me.

 

[longbarrel]

I think the airweights have something like a ten pound trigger pull??? I have one, and have had a few. In my experience, I shot much more accurately with a hammered model(637). I know it was probably all in my head, but it just seemed to be better for me.

I might be a little slow Sorry I for some reason thought this was an airweight talk. Sorry again

 

[Bisley Man]

IMO, a small frame snubby revolver is about the most difficult of all firearms to master, and a featherweight DAO is probably the toughest of those.

I'd second the suggestion to use very mild 148 gr. WC target loads until the basics of proper trigger control and sight alignment have been established.

If this was purchased as a first firearm by a complete novice on the advice of someone they knew, that person didn't do them any favor, IMO. The only suggestion I'd offer that I think might help salvage the situation would be to get them into an intro-level training course with an extremely knowledgable and experienced professional instructor running it.

Loan her a .22lr to shoot. I have a S&W617 Taget revolver she can try. PM me if you're interested