Saiga thoughts

[Walter Zoomie]

Serious Cat...

I know next to nothing about Saigas, but, for various reasons (the prices seem reasonable and ammo for them seems readily available and cheap), I've been kicking around the idea of getting one in .223 or 7.62x39.

My questions are these:

Is it common to go through all these changes you guys are doing?

Is it necessary to do in order to get these weapons to function reliably?

What is the general consensus on these rifles? Does one need to rework a bunch of crap on them, or are they good to go out of the box?

Thanks.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

They'll run reliably without converting...

And the Mosin Nagant takes 7.62x54R, not 7.62x39.

Although, there are 7.62x25 inserts available for them...


-J-

 

[Blackhawk2001]

As I found out this weekend, you can have your pistol grip/stock without doing a conversion; pistol grip/stock combinations are available. I've been told the "Sporting Carbine" version triggers are not as smooth as the converted versions, but I don't know that from personal experience.

 

[Dorky_D]

It is really easy to convert. I did the trigger in under 3 hours. It was really easy. Carolina Shooters Supply has kits ready to install. They have videos on their site that are really good.

 

[jim b]

They work great right out of the box with no mods. The modifications are not really for performance or reliability but more to do with adding a pistol grip and different stock. The only real performance mods are upgrading the x39 to take standard AK mags. this can be done in conjunction with the pistol grip or separate. I have one in X39 and it works great. Looking to get one in .223 and add the AR mag adapter. Best bang for your buck in the AK world as far as I am concerned.

 

[Saiga223]

I have the 223 version and it runs great out of the box. I did the pistol grip mod just because I thought it balanced the rifle out better. I had a druganov stock on it prior to that and it worked flawlessly.

 

[Mr.JAG]

I've done 2 of these conversion to my Saiga rifles. One in 7.62 and the other 5.45.

First, I'm going to have to disagree that the conversion doesn't add a bit of performance. True, the conversion isn't done FOR performance, but the factory trigger setup in the Saiga is atrocious (IMO anyways). Swapping out for at least a G2 trigger group greatly improves the feel and positive break of the trigger pull.

Second, these rifles are good to go out of the box... BUT, and this is a huge but, the factory components like the butt-stock feel like they belong on a cheap air soft gun from Wal-Mart. Doing the conversion with QUALITY parts brings this rifle to the level it really deserves to be at. Notice I said QUALITY. It is easy to skimp out on the conversion with cheap parts and end up with a chincey rifle with a bunch of slop and rattle (and not the good AK slop and rattle either!).

If you want the pistol grip, take my advice and do the entire conversion. The stock/grip combination parts out there that allow you put a grip on the rifle without moving the trigger group forward are just a band aid. They work, but they look/feel cheap and in the end you are going to wish just converted the right way in the first place.

If it is a money vs wants issue, you have to decide exactly what you want out of the rifle. Basic AK conversions can be done fairly cheaply (150ish area), but they won't cover EVERYTHING (i.e. FSB block for bayo lug, threaded barrel for muzzle attachment, Gas block for rod guide, etc). If you want to save money but have a real nice true russian AK, then you can do it with a Saiga conversion. If you want to save money but want an EXACT replica of a Russian AK, you are better off buying an Arsenal AK to begin with. The Arsenal's are just factory done Saiga conversions, they are pricey, but they come to you completely done (i.e. everything converted, trigger holes welded shut, gas black pressed on, FSB pressed on, Muzzle attachment, etc). Once you add up the cost and effort of doing EVERYTHING, it is actually cheaper to go buy an Arsenal. You save money on converting yourself by skipping the gas block, FSB, and threads/muzzle brake).

These are just my thoughts, I rambled alot... take them for what they are.

 

[Martin Draco]

Yes, what Mr. Jag said! I myself prefer the Saiga factory handguard but that's one of the reasons these rifles are great. Once you tear them down, you can build them up the way you'd like and upgrade things when you choose. They are pretty easy to work on and with some simple tools you can build a custom AK. I don't much care for the AK-74 front sight block and flashiders so I thread the barrel so I can use a wider selection of flashiders. I really like Mr. Jags builds but I also really like mine. Both are wonderful builds with great rifles that suit the owners/builders tastes and that is where the real satisfaction you get out of these rifles is! When you compare the cost of building an AR, a Saiga conversion seems very appealing.

 

[Dorky_D]

Agreed with Mr. Jag. There is a slight performace increase with the conversion. It is probably not night and day, but the trigger pull can be modified vs. the stock. You can also spend some more money in the trigger, and get even more performance, but that has diminishing returns.

Let me list the cost of mine to give you some real world perspective. Prices and skills vary, so keep that in mind. Prices shown include shipping.

Saiga .223 - $309 for $350 ish normally
Conversion kit - $170 (Carolina
Bullet Guide Kit - $31.58
Front Sight Block and Brake - $82
Handguard Retainer - $10

Rifle -(before tax Bradis after Christmas) These can be had for $350 ish normally.
Conversion Kit - Carolina Shooters with modified G2 trigger, billet trigger guard, Tapco retaining plate, and SAW grip
Bullet Guide - Google Dinzag Arms. Kit includes drill bit and tap.
FSB, Brake Handguard Retainer - Bought a set on gun broker that had the three items listed, along with a gas block and Rear sight block. I sold the GB and RSB. The pieces had cut pieces of barrel in them, which I had help removing from the FSB to put on.

I have not purchased a handguard yet. That is the final piece.
I found Tapco Galil magazines for 11.42 that appear to work well. Range time needed. Tapco Intrafuse 30rd Galil / Golani Mag | Trophy's Outdoors - Hunting - Guns - Ammunition - Shooting Supplies - Crimson Trace Laser Grips

I bought a scope mount and scope for about $100 combined (An inexpensive scope). The mount is a Kalink Optics Welcome to Kalinka Optics Warehouse!.

Overall, not too bad. I may have saved a bit going with the Saiga, but I have speced out what I want and done the work myself. The brake and FSB added to the cost, and are more than your basic conversion. Considering for 520 (rifle, conversion kit and bullet guide), I had a capable assault rifle for the money, is pretty cool.

I have a buddy that paid over $800 for an AR. Drop the arguments and comparrisons for a second. Considering I have a nice home defense rifle that I can go to the range and have fun shooting for less coin is pretty cool.

 

[Mordred]

Saiga's are great. You'll like the newer muzzle breaks over the old ones.

 

[boozoo]

The big difference to me was the trigger and getting a stock on there that fit me better.

Dinzag is another good site for conversions. Dad used a G2 on his. I used a Red Star Arms trigger and love it.... seriously nice two-stage.

I'd say get it and shoot it for a while as-is. You don't have to take the conversion plunge right away if you don't want to. Gather up pieces a little bit at a time if you decide you want to do it, and then "pow", it can be done in a day if you have everything there.

 

[Kase]

As I found out this weekend, you can have your pistol grip/stock without doing a conversion; pistol grip/stock combinations are available. I've been told the "Sporting Carbine" version triggers are not as smooth as the converted versions, but I don't know that from personal experience.

I got that and it works great on my .223 saiga. Its much easier than chopping the gun up, and the trigger is just as smooth as any ak i've ever shot. I highly recomend the saiga.

 

[bman]

got a saiga 308, really like it. nothing fancy but rock solid reliable and 2" groups at 100 yds. good enough for me.

 

[windellmc]

For me the LOP was a bit long stock, and the front handguard was too far forward with the trigger where it was. I think the conversion with Warsaw Pact length buttstock takes about an inch off of the LOP and of course moves the whole rifle back 2" or so. It is certainly better balanced after conversion.

 

[Dorky_D]

I got the Nato legnth stock with my kit. It was a little more expensive, but it was worth it to me.

 

[Walter Zoomie]

Thanks for all the info...it's a lot to process, but it gives me some hope.

My M1 Garand is great, but I'm thinking I need to get something a little more practical and modern (magazine-fed rifle chambered in a cheap and readily available cartridge) for the upcoming downfall of our society.

I'd love to have an AR/M16 based system, as I am very familiar with these, but the prices are ridiculous.

Mosins and SKSs don't really fit the bill, so that's why I'm considering AK/Saiga type stuff, but I don't want to have to do a lot of hacking and dicking around to get it where it needs to be either.

Such a conundrum...

I have mixed feelings about going Commie, but hey, the market is driving my decisions more than anything. What could be more American?

The fate of my next bonus check from work has been pretty much decided.

Then again, I could just wait for a convenient battle field pick-up. Free!

 

[Martin Draco]

Thanks for all the info...it's a lot to process, but it gives me some hope.

My M1 Garand is great, but I'm thinking I need to get something a little more practical and modern (magazine-fed rifle chambered in a cheap and readily available cartridge) for the upcoming downfall of our society.

I'd love to have an AR/M16 based system, as I am very familiar with these, but the prices are ridiculous.

Mosins and SKSs don't really fit the bill, so that's why I'm considering AK/Saiga type stuff, but I don't want to have to do a lot of hacking and dicking around to get it where it needs to be either.

Such a conundrum...

I have mixed feelings about going Commie, but hey, the market is driving my decisions more than anything. What could be more American?

The fate of my next bonus check from work has been pretty much decided.

Then again, I could just wait for a convenient battle field pick-up. Free!

The hacking really isn't that bad. It takes about 20 minutes and the rest is like putting Legos together. It's not as overwhelming as it sounds. If you decide to got the Saiga route and you need some help let me know. There are quite a few Saiga builders on INGO and I'm sure they would lend a hand.

 

[Mr.JAG]

Mosins and SKSs don't really fit the bill, so that's why I'm considering AK/Saiga type stuff, but I don't want to have to do a lot of hacking and dicking around to get it where it needs to be either.

Such a conundrum...

I have mixed feelings about going Commie, but hey, the market is driving my decisions more than anything. What could be more American?

The fate of my next bonus check from work has been pretty much decided.

Then again, I could just wait for a convenient battle field pick-up. Free!

I'm NOT one to deter anyone away from a quality Saiga conversion. But it sounds like you have some things to consider here.

You are interested in the AK styled rifle, but you don't want to do too much work to get it to your desired level. In reality, a basic conversion isn't much AT ALL to do. If you keep it simple and only do a stock, grip, and trigger swap... then you are really only looking at grinding down and knocking out 5 rivets, taping a hole, filing a mag catch, and a little bit of painting (to cover the bare bottom of the receiver after you take off the sporter plate). Going this route, you are looking at having somewhere in the range of 500-550 bucks in the rifle (give or take depending on yours parts selection... not considering deals on used parts). Considering you are wanting something MAG fed, you are going to want to do this conversion. Sure, the stock setup takes a 10rnd mag... but to take cheap AK mags that hold 30+ rounds AND stay legal with 922(r) you need to convert it.

For that same price point, you might want to consider an Interarms AK. They run just at $550 bucks, but are completely done (i.e. threaded muzzle, bayo lug, front hand gaurd, pistol grip, etc.... its AN AK). I don't own, nor have have I shot one, but they have gotten good reviews from members on this board. They are considered a step up from your basic Century WASR build (which typically run 360 - 450 bucks), but a level below the Arsenal Builds (700 - 1000 bucks).

Poly: AK47 Rifle Interarms IAC 47 Poly
Wood: AK47 Rifle Interarms IAC 47 Wood

Video Review from one of our members on the Interarms AK-74.

YouTube - Review: Interarms AK-74 by Atlantic Firearms


Just throwing ideas out there... not trying to sway you... cuz if I was I would just scream SAIGA conversion just so I can see more conversion threads.